Hell, negative time/ space and NDE's

Spiritual & Metaphysical Matters
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Title must be at least 15 characters? That seems like a kind of arbitrary rule.

Hell-o people. Just dropping in with something that piques my curiousity in a way I can’t suppress. Not intending to post a lot, only on this.

Apparently, 15% of NDE’s are not of heaven but of “hell”. There is not a lot of precedent of this in the Law of One but that is not to say there is zero.

I wanted to think through whether this is legitimate and where it could fit in, wondering if anyone else has had insights or thoughts about this. As I continue to write and go back to edit this line I realise I have perhaps summarised things so much that it kind of answers the questions.

Firstly, my understanding is that NDE’s in general are many times legitimate and that there is no brain activity happening when a person has an NDE. That it is a brain fart is what I have heard committed atheists say.

A thought, when perusing this material, I am obviously going to explore skepticism to this idea. The first thing that makes me skeptical is that a lot of the places that explore this theme, like the video I am just about to share, are fundamentalist Christian. The thing with Christians is that they are unbelievably evangelical, and often unbelievably hypocritical from what I have heard. You can see a lot of youtube comment sections of Christian themed videos just being ‘Amen, praise Jesus’ over and over again and it takes a certain sort of odd fanaticism to think that that is a useful contribution to anything.

This is the angle that this guy is coming from. But his video offers a very brief hell testimony (not many brief and succinct hell testimonials) and he seems genuine. I do think when searching for the truth it is obviously good to have researchers that are intent on finding it:

OK, so general thoughts. The general paradigm surrounding the new age, and connected with the Law of One. Prefers I think to believe that everyone has a life review and it is all a generally positive affair. Was it Michael Newton that wrote that book about ‘life between lives’.

But, even though people like Michael Newton belong to the ‘everything is positive’ leaning, like, there is no evil only confusion. We know from the Law of One that is not true. As in there are legions upon legions of negative “angelic” forces.

Three things I can think of that we do know about negativity from the Law of One. One is that there is a layer in our earths crust where negative thought forms exist and are sometimes aided in becoming manifest for cattle mutilation. Two that there is a negative portion of earth time/ space. That the 5th density negative wanderer intended to displace Carla to. Third, that if Carla had of been displaced to the negative, the positive wandered in negative time space would not have been able to perceive anyone around it so would have existed in “complete darkness”.

The complete darkness indicates there is no life review or anything like that in negative time/ space. Also, that if the positive wanderer COULD see their now peers in that space, that what they would likely have been is demons. If they were demons then what we understand as hell might be what they see there.

I think in one of the hell testimonies I saw it was said that in the three days between Jesus’ death and resurrection he went down to hell to administer to the people there.

There is a lot more to say here. Firstly, even though you get all these Jesus’ tubers using the hell testimonies to support their faith. I think the actual evidence is that it is not as clear cut. There are many Christians that experience hell and many atheists or even things like suicides that experience a positive NDE.

There are people who have researched and written books on Hell NDE’s. So I think those would have an incentive to look for the truth of it. But I’m basically too poor to buy a book like that. For £15 or whatever it is.

Second, the idea that some of these people who die go to hell, even though some are teenagers, it is a fact of life I have found that people who do bad things will simply never reveal these things, and there is a lot of child “violation” and such like that in society, but we can’t assume they were all “sinners” either, so that is just some thoughts there.

I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this and also, if you were looking at this area, how would you seek to determine what is true and what is false on this area?

Another thing I wonder is how do the hell peeps reincarnate? It doesn’t seem like there is any movement or process in this place so how does it get to “Oh, now I am going to reincarnate in this body for this reason”?

I could also understand how these people would flit into this life without much depth and insight into their characters, how, if people did have a negative time/ space between lives experience that such a person wouldn’t function like the rest of us.

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I am still reading Ra, so I can’t say what his take might be, if covered.
However it is in the Seth material, and also “The Nature of Personal Reality” (both by Jane Roberts) - both of which absorbed me for years, and I truly recommend. They are profound books, and offer valuable insights.

In short reply, as the famous Seth quote goes: “You create your own reality.”. Therefore, all strong beliefs about what will be waiting in the afterlife are made manifest - seemingly real, and remain real until the desire to know more, ‘what else is there?’ starts to emerge. Until then, the heaven or hell or soul weighing will appear real.

I found a suitable quote about it online, by Chiron O’Keefe: (sorry about the length).

"The time of choosing is dependent upon the condition and circumstances of the individual following transition from physical life. Some take longer than others to understand the true situation.

Others must be divested of many impeding ideas and symbols, as explained earlier. The time of choosing may happen almost immediately, in your terms, or it may be put off for a much longer period while training is carried on. The main impediments standing in the way of the time of choosing are, of course the faulty ideas harbored by any given individual.

A belief in heaven or hell, under certain conditions, can be equally disadvantageous. some will refuse to accept the idea of further work, development, and challenge, believing instead that conventional heaven situations are the only possibility. For some time they may indeed inhabit such an environment, until they learn through their own experience that existence demands development, and that such a heaven would be sterile, boring, and indeed, “deadly.”

Then they are ready for the time of choosing." --Session 546 Seth Speaks by Jane Roberts

Chiron: Seth goes on to cover how some folks then choose to encounter their version of hell until they work through those beliefs as well. There are always teachers available to help us work through our false beliefs.

What really struck me about Seth versus the other teachings I encountered on my path as a hopeful mystic, is that he pointed out what seemed most logical.

We aren’t vastly wise beings who “descend” into the fleshly existence only to get caught like a fly in the spiderweb of karma.

We are emerging souls, eager to sop up experience and pick our way through every lesson as we learn to create Responsibly.

Chapter Eleven of this book is heady stuff. Here he speaks not only of the birth, death, and reincarnation cycles. He also shares info about other systems of reality we may choose during this training process.

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Hello Lightfoot,

Well, where they contradict the Law of One’s teachings I don’t think that other channeling can be considered an authority here, for instance, from the Law of One Session 70.17:

Questioner: Now here is the point of my confusion. If, after physical death, a Wanderer would return to his home planet, shall I say, why cannot the same entity be extracted from negative time/space to the home planet rather than incarnating in negative space/time?

Ra: I am Ra. As we stated, the position in negative time/space, of which we previously were speaking, is that position which is pre-incarnative. After the death of the physical complex in yellow-ray activation the mind/body/spirit complex moves to a far different portion of time/space in which the indigo body will allow much healing and review to take place before any movement is made towards another incarnative experience.

I perceive a basic miscalculation upon your part in that time/space is no more homogenous than space/time. It is as complex and complete a system of illusions, dances, and pattern as is space/time and has as structured a system of what you may call natural laws.

My emphasis. This basically says that the life on the other side of the veil is not an imaginative free for all but has real natural laws that cannot be bypassed.

I think there is room for something like this, like, perhaps some experiences are created by the higher self to make sure a person stays on path, there was a hell NDE from Shaman Oaks that said something like this. But when attempting to follow the evidence it does not lead me into a ‘you create your own reality’ kind of answer to Hell NDE’s.

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There is such a thing as negative time/space (and negative space/time).

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Yeah,

I’ve been thinking about this while walking about and to me it does make a bit more sense. Like, so, if you get some sort of monster that brutalises a child, and posts the kind of pictures you hear about on the dark web, and there are a few of these about. It just doesn’t seem logical to me that such a being would die and then go for a nice life review with positive entities like: “and what did you learn by torturing that child for three days?”. “What could you improve upon in your next lifetime?”

There was a video by the youtuber Shaman Oaks which talked about these areas, women had brilliant “truth telling” body language. It was called ‘Good Catholic goes to hell, says religion is to blame (shocking NDE)’, that was the exact title so you can find it, date was June 7th 2023. She explains this long process for a part of it she was getting “graped” for days on end then decides at the end of it all, after she lived, that it was just her Catholic upbringing but then it’s like, my question is: “Well, how do you know?” and also, it just seems a bit of a crappy thing to do to “grape” a person for a few days to teach them a lesson about their belief system.

The thing is, a lot of the NDE’s are from apparently normal people. So that is just one of those things. As I have said apparently normal people are not necessarily going to confess to crappy things they have done, but, I would not feel comfortable assuming they had done bad things either.

Since we are pre harvest it might be that people are getting assigned to the “hell” part of things as just part of the normal course of lives here. Like I alluded to before it would explain some peoples behaviours and perspectives.

I once had an incredibly terrifying schizophrenic type of episode where I experienced unbelievable pain like my soul was being winked out of existence by negative entities. I wonder if somehow I hooked into that. That is definitely not the point of this post but just a side bar.

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This is an interesting topic, I may have something that might relate.

I am a five foot woman, educated, calm, if not humorous.

Since the age of 5, I have met with many humans that are smack in the middle of malicious acts either towards me but mostly others. Big things! Molestation, armed robbery, hit and run, and many other types of violence (physical, psychological, societal). That I am “at the right place, at the right time,” is no longer a coincidence. Protecting strangers is a usual thing now.

My role: I interrupt and chase these dark ones away. Recent history, two different men (in two different towns) tried to run me over with large trucks in a parking lot, in public —just by me innocently standing with my groceries. I had shocked witnesses. Like a matador, I was missed ( soon after, I physically confronted them, with the tone of a psychiatrist .) I was not afraid, nor unnerved. Not sure why. I felt that I was guided.

I felt I channeled something (light) . I felt as if “they” also channeled something (darkness).

Watching the movie “Journey to the West” although this is not my culture, these Chinese myths or beliefs seem curious to me. Shapeshifters occupy bodies. A possibility? Nonetheless, I protect humans and nature as much as possible.

My ego would like to be a female Buddha, a quiet benevolent presence, but instead, I feel like a demon hunter. Not my favorite. Yet, It must be done. Fortunately, I spend most of my day in nature.

Is anyone else familiar with this situation and can give some insight?

Thanks for taking a moment. Blessings, Dd

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Just a general comment. Fear can be an amazingly powerful force. If it can enter into a person’s system and stimulate areas that are disposed to receiving it, much damage can be done, as it can twist and alter a person’s perception to the point where they cannot tell up from down.

Through meditation and other sorts of inner work one can get to know the self more deeply and address these areas disposed to receiving fear, such as places of traumatic pain.

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This is a Q’uo excerpt from August 9th, 2002.

I’m adding to expand on the point I made above, and, this could then be taken in various directions by any who are interested.

Moving back into the thought of polarity, it is important to love the negative portions of self, the shadow portions of self, as much as the sunny, daylight portions of consciousness that one is most desirous of sharing with the world. Blessed is the entity who is not only able to share positivity with the world but is also able to share the perceptions of his own negative nature with a calm and peaceful heart, with a forgiving and accepting heart.

This does not mean that an entity embraces the darkness of self and becomes the murder, the rapist, the thief, the sloth, the prideful one, and the one who disrespects or covets or lives in envy and hate. It means that, when those emotions are encountered within the self as response to catalyst, that the self is able to gaze upon itself with an unblinking eye, not troubled by judgment but remaining within a peaceful and unconcerned heart. To be afraid of the shadow side of self is to invite the entrance into the life of increasing numbers of what this entity would call vampires or those who attack or greet psychically.

For there is the polarity of the light and the dark that is willing and ready to amplify the basic truth of that person as perceived by itself. Thusly, if that person is able to embrace its perceived failures, its perceived suffering, its perceived disharmony, there is no bias incurred towards punishing the self through the contractions of fear that one is not behaving well or not doing enough or not being supportive enough. It is very easy for an entity experiencing negative emotions to begin a spiral that moves ever downward, where there is self-judgment and self-despising and then the outside consensus reality gradually offers an increasing number of mirrors that project the self to the self, showing images of fear-producing feelings. Thusly, the entity considers itself more and more of a failure; it becomes more and more willing to live in fear, and therefore it shuts itself off from those feelings of harmony, unity and the open flow of catalyst and experience. And thusly suffering occurs.

However, there is just as much efficacy in the smallest improvement in releasing fear. As the entity perceives fear where before it did not, thusly it begins to perceive those key elements which provide the catalyst that increases fear. Once these embedded points of entry for negative catalyst are located, it may be seen that these are like triggers towards contraction, self-protection and fear. Thusly, the process becomes more and more transparent to the seeking self, and the self begins to be able to disconnect the seemingly fear-producing catalyst from the actual process of turning catalyst into experience. It is a matter of identifying that point when an entity is entering into fear, and, as we said, this is a subtle and usually long-term process. It is an awakening that is most salubrious and certainly, usually, most dearly bought.

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dd41: Hello, I am not quite sure what to do with that it doesn’t relate directly at least to ‘hell’ as far as I know. For me, I always seem to leave five minutes before a conflict or some other coincidence seems to remove me from them.

So, you have highlighted, not just quoted but specifically highlighted here a passage that seems to want to communicate to me that I consider myself a failure.

I don’t actually. The people I consider failures are the boomers that let mass immigration into their country and betrayed the younger generation because they didn’t want their egalitarian religious viewpoints challenged with reality.

And voted in loads of social programs that had to be paid off by the national debt (i.e. the taxation of their children).

And honestly, how dare you talk to me like that. Pretty impotent behind this keyboard but you try going out and saying that to peoples face in the real world.

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As you can see, amigo, I highlighted several passages and did not put any special emphasis on failure. For example, I also highlighted the following.

I hope your attitude finds itself softening over time.

PS: Raging against other members here just might be against the rules.

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You highlighted a passage about failure while directly addressing me. Take some goddamn responsibility. And the entire tone of your message is condescending that backs up that interpretation.

The bit you “also highlighted” is gaslighting. Your condescension is not the problem, only my response to your condescension is.

But condescension isn’t? Convenient huh?

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False.

I was addressing any who might care about the topic.

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OK Mirror, so help me understand, if you would.

I posted on this thread about hell like concepts. As a general point of discussion.

Your response was directed to anyone generally, but, since it was in this thread, specifically relevant to this concept one would assume. Who is that anyone? Aside from you there are four people in the thread.

Patrick simply quoted a passage of the Law of One. dd41, spoke on something perhaps tangentially connected.

And what you are trying to say by this passage is what? You are communicating something. Does it even actually relate to the subject? It talks about how people can manage chronic pain. Is this advice for how people manage chronic pain in hell? Are people meant to be counselled against feeling like failures while they are being tortured by demons? If someone ends up in hell that could be a very legitimate reason to think they were a failure it seems to me.

Perhaps I should have lead with this. It is cleaner. I mean, technically you did not choose to address me directly when you highlighted not feeling bad because you are a failure. But, I dunno, if someone says something randomly in a room of five people, then I think it is reasonable for any of them to respond to said communication. Otherwise, it could be used as a way of offloading aggression but calling it “general communication”. That then, can’t be responded to because it is “general”.

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After the death of the physical body, the entities will inhabit the sub-densities of time/space compatible with their vibrations.

“Hell” is nothing more than portions of what is called the astral plane. In spiritualist literature, it’s generally called the lower astral plane.

I will give a quick description of these places.

The lowest point is what in spiritualist and occult literature is called the abyss. I assume that it corresponds to the geographic area of ​​the Earth’s core. This is a place that unenlightened entities or those who don’t have a high degree of psychic mastery and distortion in the direction of love/light can’t access without the help of more advanced beings. In this place there are demons and extremely dangerous entities that are in a certain way sealed and can’t leave there, as they could cause chaos in the world. Another type of entity that inhabits these places are disembodied brothers who unfortunately have become so distorted due to negative emotions and thoughts that their astral forms are destroyed to the point of losing their form and becoming monsters and grotesque forms that bear little or no resemblance to what they once were.

The layers above the abyss are what is called the “umbral”, which extends below the Earth’s crust. In this place, there are thought-forms and extremely distorted entities. These places have the appearance of destroyed cities, slums and everything else that is most animalistic that a human being can think, feel and desire. The law of the strongest prevails in the infinite sub-dimensions of the umbral and the entities with the greatest psychic power enslave the weaker entities. I personally have been on a rescue mission in one of these places with my astral body where we defeated one of the “bosses” of what was enslaving other entities. Obviously, I wasn’t alone and I received support from more evolved entities, which in my country are called “mentors”.

For someone to go to this umbral after death, a huge degree of distortion is required, since most people inhabit the middle astral plane after their disincarnation. In energetic terms, entities with serious blockages and distortions in the red and orange rays are likely to go to the lower astral plane, since the yellow ray of the middle astral plane is the level congruent with third density entities.

People who live there reincarnate after they manage to overcome the mental state that put them there (hell and heaven are within us). Most need to be rescued, as in the case I helped. After the rescue, they go to healing colonies in the middle astral plane and one day they will be able to incarnate again and continue their evolution.