I come to believe that the One Infinite Creator as we and the Confederation mean it may be the Devil, the Serpent in Eden

After reading for half a year James Hinton’s Selections from Manuscripts(which I have shared in this forum half a year ago, James Hinton’s Selections from Manuscripts ), I come to believe that the One Infinite Creator as we and the Confederation mean it may be the Devil, the Serpent in Eden. And the real God is in the spiritual realm. Because the Devil is the self, and what we can do is self-sacrifice. This may also seem to be an ambiguous word and you may ask, is not self all there is(and sacrificing the self will result in nothingness?). I think this is the tricky part that the Devil takes advantage of to deceive all of us. Yes, self has multilayered meanings including to indicate an entity itself, but the self in the self-sacrifice I am talking about is the consciousness(because self and consciousness are inseparable from each other according to James Hinton). But self cannot cast out self itself from us, and self can only do self-emptying, and after self emptied itself, more self will come in and fill us. But according to James Hinton, Christ does that, i.e. casting out the self eternally for us, and the work is to be perfected by us in time. This may seem off-putting to non-religious people, and I also dismissed Christianity in the past. Because, the way we understand Christianity is just so distorted, and Christ’s work is on so high a level, that our understanding of Chrisitianity is not true in many aspects.

This may seem a little far-fetched but there are just too much to talk about in order to introduce you to this idea. But I am going to quote some(only some) of the evidence that I gathered from these four books, that corroborate what I have claimed:

That is the meaning of all this Sin it is the destroying of the self. If God were not destroying it, there wd be none of this evil ; it wd be quiet, and apparently good ; it is only revealed as sinning when being destroyed. Does not this suggest, among other things, that this world may be, as it were, an exception it alone stained with sin : the self, the Devil, negation, destroyed here and here only ; and so only here be this sinning; all the self in the universe meet its destruction here : the Devil the only one evil or negation here meet its complete and utter overthrow. This is the course and meaning of the world. So it restores that idea of the pre-eminence throughout the whole creation of that work of Christ, and gives it a new and infinite significance. Christ by that destroyed the Devil the sole spirit of evil. In man that work is perfected. We must see this to be an eternal work ; not in time ; not one period selected for it. So the ’ angels ’ have an infinite concern, as it were, in this work of re- demption ; and Calvary is the turning point of universal history .

Surely the devil is the ’ miser ’ of the universe. He is the ruler, the possessor, of this world — of the physical.

We act on the Devil’s behalf, not man’s. We sacrifice man for the Devil ; we will put up with that wh is evil for man ; but that wh is evil for self, we labor to avert. But God’s sacrifice is to sacrifice ’ Devil ’ (self) for man. Sacrifice shows sin to be deadness : for blood, i e. life, purifies; life takes away death; that is, purifies. Also, before we can give ourselves as sacrifices we must be free from that fear of future sufferings ; otherwise the self is latent there.

The God of this world — the Being who has his will and rules is the devil.

And so, when God comes to show that He is the God — reveals Himself as God in relation to this world — He can only do it by showing Himself as Christ the sacrifice : only on that condition can it be. Only as the sacrifice — the Being who ‘pleased not Himself.’ Otherwise if He were the God of this world, as we think ; the Being who rules and has His way He would be the Devil. To show Himself in Christ is the only condition under which He can show Himself God, in this world. So when we say ‘ what right had God to make the world ? ’ surely it is the Gospel supplies the answer. The Gospel is God pleading at man’s bar— justifying Himself; not calling man to judgment, but submitting to be judged, and claiming— trust.

Certainly it is the self deceives us, it makes us feel God’s love as evil: all this that destroys the self, delivers us from that, makes us alive ; is delivering us from the Devil. So we are led captive by the Devil, like to serve him, are deceived by him ; think it is freedom to act for ourselves .

If we conceive this universal mind of man, wh we see to be ’ passion’, to be passion of another ’ spirit ’ (and what passion is it, if not ? it is not ours as individuals ; but being passion, it must be passion of a spirit, there is no other ‘ being ’ for it to be passion of ultimately) ; then we see at once how it is and must be a living mind to such spirit — ‘his mind’ indeed. And I perceive that this not only may be so, but must be so ; being passion it must be passion of a spirit really, whatever it may be phenomenally. And this spirit is certainly not any human spirit. It must be the spirit of whom the universal mind is the ’ mind.’ So our mind is such an universal mind, consisting of many subordinate minds. Indeed it is all involved in what I have long seen, that each comparatively great vibration consists of many little vibrations ; i. e. each life consists of many lives, for vibration is life. It is all involved in this, and it is not only each great life, for the ’ infinite divisibility of matter ’ teaches us here that there is no life so small that it does not consist of many.

Simply put, as you can see, whether we are serving other selves or our own selves, we are all serving/pleasing the Great Central Black Hole. Meanwhile, the true God will never please Himself. And so long as there is self, we have no other choices but to serve the Self.

But I am far from being proficient over these four books, so maybe I may interpret it wrongly. But I am posting this mainly to call more attention to these four books because they are good complementary materials to the Ra Material.

The thing with our point of view is that it changes our whole experience down here. Or at least it greatly changes the flavour of our everyday lives.

So personally, I believe that our perspective is perhaps the most powerful tool we have at our disposal and so we should choose very carefully what we believe in and how we see the world around us.

This tool alone is enough to make us happy or miserable during our stay here.

In the end, for myself I chose that it does not matter which part of the Creator is handling our part of the Creation. I choose to see the world with eyes of Love and this, in my opinion, is what breaks any kind of prison.

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The Great Central Black Hole and the Great Central Sun are concepts that transcend polarity. They exist on a level beyond the dichotomies of service to others versus service to self, the radiant and the magnetic, the Devil and Jesus, Angels and Lucifer, Humanity and the Serpent, Paradise, and even the very concept of God.

To comprehend the Great Central Sun, one must return to the foundational principles, to the 8th density and the state of Unity/Infinity. Before any recognizable form of existence, there was only Unity/Infinity, a state where all things are unified into one. In this oneness, there is nothing, as it is impossible to describe or distinguish anything within it. Yet, this oneness is also something—something unknown, indefinable, and therefore infinite.

This condition can be metaphorically depicted as a state of extremely dense, compact “matter” that contains unified, infinite potential, untransformed into any particular form. This could be referred to as the Great Central Black Hole. The One Infinite Creator chose to disrupt and destabilize this state, thereby releasing all the hidden, unknown, and infinite potential within it. This release of potential can be seen metaphorically as the liberation of White Light, which can also be referred to as the Great Central Sun.

Initially, this White Light represents nothing in itself; it is merely pure, infinite potential brimming with possibilities for various expressions. From this, eventually, emerge Intelligent Infinity, Free Will distortion, Intelligent Energy, Love and Light distortions. It is at this stage that polarity, and the physical universe, begin to manifest. White Light is undistorted in any way, Source/Great Central Sun.

The Great Central Black Hole has nothing to do with negative polarity; rather, it represents a return to Oneness. All the potential that was released when the Creator (at the 8th density) in manifestation of Great Central Sun destabilized Oneness must ultimately return to balance—Creator must return to the One. This process is also known as the harvest, which occurs gradually, density by density, until it culminates in the 8th density, where everything is gathered back into Oneness thanks to the Great Central Black Hole.

Every experience, memory, lesson, and piece of knowledge, from every level of density and every path of polarity, is ultimately integrated into the One—specifically, into the One Infinite Creator. Here, everything that the Creator manifested at lower density levels is fully reintegrated into Oneness, into the Infinite.

After this complete integration, the Creator’s Consciousness will begin a new Octave, releasing a more refined White Light from the Great Central Sun. This light carries within it the essence of the previous Octave, further enhanced by an even greater, previously unknown infinite potential that has always existed and always will.

Now, let’s examine the manifestation of the One Infinite Creator at the 7th Density level. At this level, we encounter Intelligent Infinity—a singular Being composed of interconnected entities, each possessing its own distinctiveness, multiplicity, and finiteness. The Creator at the 7th density level is not yet fully integrated, as it expresses itself in various contradictory ways through the lower densities.

At this level, the Creator is primarily characterized by two aspects: the Radiant (positive) and the Magnetic (negative). However, unlike 6th density for example where difference/bias in polarization is obvious, the Creator balances these two polarities. Whereas in 6th density, beings are clearly biased towards one path or the other. There is no choice in polarity for Creator, no conflict between polarities. Creator is crystallized in a certain way, uniting polarization.

These aspects are perfectly balanced, such that every self-serving intent of the Creator is equally counterbalanced by unconditional loving action. In practice, this dynamic results in the Creator’s Will being fully focused on Service to Others, while its negative aspect creates a shadow that underscores the significance of what is given. Indeed, without this shadow, without this negative aspect, there would be no possibility for the Creator to give and to love others.

The Creator, seeking to better experience and understand itself, manifests at a lower level. There we have 6th density—the density of the unification of love/light, light/love. At this level of density, the unified light/love can be used either in Service to Self, meaning the light/love is closed off for oneself, or in balance with others, spreading also the light/love outward.

We do not serve or ‘pleasing’ the Great Central Black Hole. If anything, our service and devotion are directed toward the Great Central Sun, with the Great Central Black Hole representing the harvest of that service. It serves as the backbone of the Great Central Sun and embodies the balance within the Universe, where all ultimately returns to the One.

In the end, everything gathered by the Great Central Black Hole will form the foundation for the next Great Central Sun, which will initiate a new Great Cycle. However, until that time comes, our task is to align ourselves with the Great Central Sun in the current octave and actively participate in the ongoing process of Creation. Our work involves transforming the unknown into the known, the undefined into the defined, and so forth, as we process the White Light of the Great Central Sun.

Eventually, all of this will be harvested by the Great Central Black Hole, enabling the opening of a new cycle. In a sense, the Great Central Black Hole operates in service to the Great Central Sun, perpetuating a Great Never-ending Cycle in which we continuously discover, develop, and evolve.

You, @Thinghood, wrote this in the name of the subject.

I come to believe that the One Infinite Creator as we and the Confederation mean it may be the Devil, the Serpent in Eden

Well, let’s be honest—does that really make any sense?

To begin with, the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden seems heavily distorted, likely a blend of accurate information and misinformation. It’s doubtful that this story was written and popularized with purely positive intentions. However, I believe there is certainly a valuable lesson to be gleaned from it, one that aligns with what the Confederation teaches us.

Adam and Eve, residing in Eden, are undoubtedly in a very positive sphere, suffused with the presence of God and love. They live their lives in harmony, acceptance, and balance with themselves and other species. This state can be compared to the 4th density of love and understanding, with Adam and Eve embodying 4th density social memory complex oriented toward service to others—Adam representing the male principle and Eve the female principle.

At some point, they encounter the Serpent. It’s worth considering that this Serpent is an intelligent being coexisting in the same reality as them. This could symbolize a 4th density being than 2nd density of course, given their direct interaction and the serpent’s clear, intelligent temptation for them to go against the principles of God. We might reasonably interpret the serpent as a representation of 4th Density Service to Self, attempting to lure Adam and Eve into choosing Service to Self. As we know, service to self is closely associated with rejecting alignment with the Will of the Creator.

Then comes the expulsion from paradise. This can be interpreted as humanity falling from the 4th density, choosing instead to face the challenges and trials necessary to return and elevate its polarity towards 4th density service to others. The Serpent, meanwhile, represents a being of Service to Self, acting in its own interest or on behalf of its higher-densities STS masters.

So, to sum it up: The One Infinite Creator corresponds to the God of the Eden story, though that story presents a very distorted version of the Creator. In my view, the Confederation’s portrayal of the One Infinite Creator is more coherent, logical, and profound.

Adam and Eve symbolize humanity at a higher level of density, which makes sense within the context of development. Higher forms of consciousness, such as Intelligent Infinity itself, manifest in more distorted planes of existence at lower densities to facilitate growth and evolution. However, the most accurate placement of Eden seems to be in the 4th density of service to others.

The Devil can be seen as a representation of 6th density Service to Self, embodying the idea of opposing the Will of God through self-serving actions. The Serpent, on the other hand, serves as an emissary of higher-density beings. Serpent can be 4th density Service to Self entities, who can directly influence humans, attempting to steer them toward Service to Self—often by manipulating their free will. Which often comes down to those in 3rd density suffering and energetically feeding those who are Service to Self.


I thought today I would go back and edit this post:

It would be worthwhile to consider whether the Scriptures and the various studies and words preached by the religion that is Christianity and its offshoots are worth a closer look…

Excerpt from Ra (bold mine):

26.4Questioner

Assuming that it is all right to continue, we’re down to the last 3,000 years of this present cycle, and I was wondering if the Law of One in either written or spoken form has been made available within this past 3,000 years in any complete way such as we’re doing now? Is it available in any other source?

Ra

I am Ra. There is no possibility of a complete source of information of the Law of One in this density. However, certain of your writings passed to you as your so-called holy works have portions of this law.

26.5Questioner

Does the Bible as we know it have portions of this law in it?

Ra

I am Ra. This is correct.

26.6Questioner

Can you tell me if the Old Testament has any of the Law of One?

Ra

I am Ra. This is correct.

26.7Questioner

Which has more of the Law of One in it, the Old Testament or the New Testament?

Ra

I am Ra. Withdrawing from each of the collections of which you speak the portions having to do with the Law of One, the content is approximately equal. However, the so-called Old Testament has a larger amount of negatively influenced material, as you would call it.

26.8Questioner

Can you tell me about what percentage is Orion-influenced in both the Old and the New Testaments?

Ra

We prefer that this be left to the discretion of those who seek the Law of One. We are not speaking in order to judge. Such statements would be construed by some of those who may read this material as judgmental. We can only suggest a careful reading and inward digestion of the contents. The understandings will become obvious.


The story of the Serpent, Adam and Eve, and the exile from Eden is found in the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament. I believe this narrative, along with much of the Old Testament, has been significantly distorted, a perspective that aligns with Ra’s view.

In my opinion, the passages in the New Testament that recount the life and teachings of Jesus hold the greatest value among the Scriptures. Additionally, the teachings of the apostles are also significant. Their value, for me, lies in the knowledge they offer, which facilitates personal growth, enables one to serve others, and helps open the Heart. However, I am referring to passages, not necessarily the entire New Testament.

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Thanks for the detailed reply. I undertand you are interpreting other materials completely based on the Ra Material and I, too, am interpreting all the other materials in the world based on Ra Material and the four books I mentioned.

We can think from an intuitive perspective: we all know sometimes there exist some scenerios where it is clearly not proper to serve others because it will do no one good and in the Ra Material we call it that we should love others wisely. But how to serve others wisely? I think this is one of the points the four books I recommended have clarified. We should serve an other self if and when it could facilitate him to help sacrifice huamnity’s self. And this is also intuitively proper. Namely, we should not serve an other self for the sake of his self. If it is not good for the whole, we could also not serve him. Serving is not the final answer.

If you search the capitalized Self in the pdf version of the conscious channeling(because the website does not support searching based on capital letters), you will find there are hundreds of places referring to the Creator as the Creator Self. This Creator Self, as well as every humans’ selves, should be sacrificed. And to quote a paragraph from the four books:

Submitting our will to the will of God is not submitting to another will like ours (arbitrary). We must remember what our will is, how it is from the self : God’s will is emphatically the negation of such will, it is the opposite of it. Being one with the will of God is rather the escaping from all arbitrariness. The point of it is here : not changing our self-will for another, however better or higher, but being freed from all self-will.

We act on the Devil’s behalf, not man’s. We sacrifice man for the Devil ; we will put up with that wh is evil for man ; but that wh is evil for self, we labor to avert. But God’s sacrifice is to sacrifice ’ Devil ’ (self) for man.

I recommend you to read for some time these four books and you will find new perspectives and answers that the Ra Material does not give. Although, again, I may be totally wrong in my interpretation of these four books, which are written in the 1860s by the way and they are consistent in many ways with the Ra Material.

The search engine on the LL Research website handles both uppercase and lowercase letters equally, meaning it doesn’t differentiate between them.

I visited this link: Search - L/L Research and entered the phrase ‘creator self’. The search results included both ‘Creator Self’ and ‘Creator-self’ and others. This confirms that the search function is case-insensitive and can find phrases regardless of the capitalization used. When you type ‘Creator Self’ it searches for ‘Creator Self’ and others. It’s no problem to take a capital letter.

In general, I have no difficulty searching for information. I maintain a comprehensive file, as well as separate files, which allow for a variety of search methods. For example, check out this thread: L/L Research Channeling Material - all sessions in one file - #7 by K.K.33. I shared a compiled file of the sessions there. This file can be opened in Notepad, allowing for easy and straightforward searches for specific phrases such as ‘Creator Self’ or ‘creator self’.

Regarding the concept of ‘sacrifice’ in the Confederation material:

In the teachings of the Confederation, the term ‘sacrifice’ related to the Creator can be used in the context of the One Infinite Creator ‘sacrificing’ its unity to experience diversity through creation. This means the Creator divides its unity into an infinite number of fragments, manifesting as different beings, worlds, and experiences. This can be seen as a form of ‘sacrifice’ because the Creator chooses to fragment its unity to enable individual beings to experience and grow spiritually.

However, this ‘sacrifice’ is symbolic rather than literal. In the Confederation’s teachings, this act is viewed as a gesture of love and a desire to fully understand itself through experiencing diversity.

The ‘sacrifice’ of humanity, particularly in the context of spiritual teachings and the archetype of Jesus Christ, is often seen as a profound act of love and dedication. In Christian tradition, Jesus is considered to have voluntarily given His life to unite humanity with God, offering redemption through His suffering and death on the cross.

This type of sacrifice is interpreted as an ultimate example of unconditional love, where an individual chooses to make a personal sacrifice for the benefit of others. Through His suffering and death, Jesus not only atoned for humanity’s sins but also illustrated the path to spiritual rebirth and union with the Divine.

In this context, human sacrifice, modeled after Jesus, is perceived as an act of deep love that transcends personal desires and paves the way for higher spiritual understanding. This sacrifice can manifest in various forms, from physical offerings and spiritual renunciations to everyday acts of love and service to others. The essence of this sacrifice is the pursuit of expressing divine love and unity through acts of sacrifice that transform both the individual and the wider community.


What I had to write, I wrote, and I leave this thread. I don’t know, maybe we don’t understand each other. Either we just don’t understand each other, or we have completely different approaches. I have the one I conveyed. You have yours. Let’s just leave it - at least as far as our interaction directly is concerned.

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Sorry to be the negative here, But everyone in the Law of One believes in the Source NOT GOD ( from my filter) RA would say there are many Gods yet only One Source. Example your idea of God is just a pervert concept by mankind. Did RA have God to reach the 6 lv NO they did it thought sex and❤️LOVE. God maybe a reminder for yourself of higher self, you are God. Does God have hands? No you do. Do you believe in the story of the ARK? Was it not described as being round? The only thing that could hold two of every animal is a space craft and it should be obvious that is was a ship of❤️Love & light❤️
Everything you see here is irrelevant.
:heart:Love Light and Laughter :heart:

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What you call the Devil is the ego. We cannot conquer the ego because conquest is egoic. The correct course is surrender of the false self. The proper alter of this surrender for sacrifice is the heart.

The Lo1 embodies the Higher Self (HS) as the Christ (or Christ-self), Christ Consciousness or Krishna Consciousness. This HS is all about free will, so we must invite the HS into our heart. There are many aspects Christianity gets right. We all have a Higher Self-- us 150 million years in the future with the ability to enfold the totality of our evolution at every moment of it. In this way we can invite this resource to guide us with catalyst we willingly accept and process.

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Interesting thoughts in the post and replies.

Both God and Lucifer/Devil are part of the one unified Creator/Source, as Ra said “All serve the Creator because there is nothing else to serve.”

So does there exist a self-aware seeming separate entity for “God and Lucifer” as humans have traditionally looked on it?

I have to probe this concept intuitively and see what I get.

I really do not believe we can sacrifice our consciousness in the sense that self-awareness ceases in some permanent way.

I feel that this concept is misplaced. It is the WILL that we can surrender. I think this is what the other replier might have meant by ego.

Surrender one’s will to divine will. Only perhaps to find that what the Divine wills is that you freely choose to have experiences. And that it’s the individual’s choice to be in service-to-others or service-to-self.

Consider we do temporarily do sacrifice our self-awareness all the time. When we go to sleep at night, we let go of being actively self-aware and go into another state of consciousness. Identity remains always. You can always sense identity it another level of reality, even as you’re asleep.

Our consciousness is not really our own, that’s just part of the illusion. It is the Creator’s consciousness experiencing itself through the manifestation of every entity.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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Thanks for all the replies. I think maybe instead of clarifying the issue, I have muddied the waters. Because these four books only become convincing when I have read them for over three months or so. Just like when LoO students try to introduce LoO to other people(I think we all have our unique experiences that make us believe in and lead us finally into the LoO), there are just so much to be familiar with to make it become convincing. And many many people will not get engaged with this rabbit hole because they lose interest fast before they reach an engagement threshold where they can begin to find meanings behind all of this.

I think this is the similar situation for me promoting these four books, I really believe they are less distorted and more informative than the Ra Material. But many people will not get involved in this because they either are too busy or become too impatient to read some densely-written books. But all is well. Everyone has his own pace of being exposed to light. But I feel my mission is to make my best efforts to make these four books known to as many LoO sutdents as possible. Because in my opinion there are inumerable places in these four books that will be understood only if you are familiar with some LoO concepts first. And I believe Ra is a part of Adam and they have a benign intention behind transmitting the Ra Material. I believe they are just deceived by the Creator as we mean it, i.e. that Creator who has a Self. And to be honest, I do not really know what exactly the self means, nor self-sacrifice means. But I find the following quote:

Consciousness is not directly of the ’ not ‘; it is perception of the result of the ’ not,’

Wherever there is a negation there is a self.

Is man thus the image of the creator ? This same consciousness, not limited, were it not true consciousness ? but to be not limited it must be deeper, i. e. other ; of Being, not of form. Is not the unifying here striking ? This individuality (selfness), which is feeling forms as real, by relation only to particular forms, and not to all, is truly by a not-relation to Being : i. e., the not-relation to Being (the not-being, in a word) is the fact, of which this relation only to particular forms and not to all, is the phenomenon. So by negation necessarily comes introducing a self; viz. a feeling of forms as real. In relation to this, think again of our selfness from the ’ death ’ to man. Does not death result in dissolution ; the breaking up of an or- ganic body— a one— into separate and isolated parts ? [as man into se- parate individuals].

‘Do not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil’: i. e. do not regard your-self. Why is the serpent ? This self in man is surely necessary to him as a creature. See in that consciousness of being naked the first indications of a regard to self. How wonderful it is that even modesty shd be indicative of death. Our very virtues show the death, the self-regard. The self cannot cast out the self, it leaves the man empty. Are not sin, self-righteousness, and redemption, as the ignorant instinct, suppression, and interpretation?How does this bear on the affairs of life ? I want to know the right thing to do: — regard the redemption, and be content; rejoice to be embarrassed, and at a loss; leave off thinking of yourself. "Do the loving thing—as you must do if you have escaped from self.

We must distinguish between the pleasant and the good : they are as self-love and love. The pleasant is the self-good ; the good is to sacrifice ourselves for others. How shall we do that ? accept the inconveniences that befall us. But we do not see this does others any good. True : here we want faith ; that is just the point. And see how the disciples saw no good in the death of Christ ; nothing could have looked more purely evil. And so we see all things in Christ : in Him is the revelation of the true nature of them all. Christ reveals God to us.

Not sure I agree with everything, but it’s definitely something to ponder. Curious to see how others might weigh in on this.

Also, I want to add the following:

the Creator as we mean it is a Self-Creator, a Creator-Self, it is whimsical, or to use the words of these four books, it is self-will, it is arbitrary, the second distortion is Self-love as long as we love others for the Self’s sake(i.e. in service of the One Infinite Creator-Self) instead of loving others for others’ Being’s sake. I think the Creator as we mean it could not predict free-will(the first distortion) of animals or other parts of Nature because Nature is the True God’s will and our perceiving Nature as we do is True God’s action upon our spirits(not-beings). Regarding our free will and the Creator’s free will, it is just self-will, it is inherently arbitrary(thought I do not claim I could clearly see this fact). The difference between positive path and the negative path are just submitting to a different self’s arbitrary whims because the negative path entities want to be that ultimate Self. But that does not mean the positive path becomes of no use, service-to-others is still infinitely better than service to self in the phenomenonal world. But regardless of STO or STS, I think we are both deceived by the Creator, the Devil, because we as human were one humanity without self. We became trapped in(or are dreaming in) this illusion constructed by the mind of the Devil. We are infinite, as a spirit, just like Devil, by virtue of also having a spirit, is infinite. But we incurred death and became finite, that is why we perceive Devil as infinite and call it Infinite Creator.

This seems to be one-sided claim only, but you need to read more of these four books to find it convincing and integrated.

Here is a help to that about ‘families.’ At present, from our ‘self’ point of view, other selves of course are better for us to regard than our own; because there is less of self in it. But when we are delivered from our own self, then other selves will get right to us. It is like casting the beam out of our own eye to see clearly.

I think these four books hold the potential to unite the STO and STS paths because so long as an entitiy has not yet become one with the Creator, the Devil, they still could change their mind. Because

The unredeemed are to be cast into this fire prepared for the Devil, with him : it must be so ; the Devil is in them, nay, the Bible says the Devil is them. —Selections from Manuscripts

So how do we become one with the Creator? by virtue of the most strong desire to serve the Self(whether STO or STS), so strong that that is your only concern, to love/serve the Self. Then you become one with the Devil.

So the issue with Ra’s three steps:

One, know yourself. Two, accept yourself. Three, become the Creator. The third step is that step which, when accomplished, renders one the most humble servant of all, transparent in personality and completely able to know and accept other-selves.

is wrongness of the second and the third step. Our Self is the negation, knowing the negation is the means for knowing True God. But self is to be destroyed, because by destroying negation, God is creating.

By Creator I intend to mean the intelligent infinity that created all of existence, all universes, realms, and reality, both physical and meta-physical.

@Thinghood - you posted a link to a google search that has a bunch of errata (at least that’s what I get), can you post links to each of the 4 books you are referring to?

Have a great day.

This is weird. I definitely have posted the link to archive.org and this is what is being displayed all along on my side.

volume 1: Selections from manuscripts : Hinton, James : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
volume 2: Selections from manuscripts : Hinton, James : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
volume 3: Selections from manuscripts : Hinton, James : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
volume 4: Selections from manuscripts : Hinton, James : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

This physical universe(material universe plus psychical universe) is created by the True God but the current ruler is what we mean by the Infinite Creator, not the True God. And by introducing the negation into us, we perceive it as we do now. This physical universe(material universe plus psychical universe) is the image/reflection of the true spiritual universe. It is Nature, True God’s will, so the Infinite Creator as we mean it cannot predict the events in Nature and attributed it to the so-called first distortion, free-will. Intelligent Infinity is just a very small part of True God’s realm, and part of Inifinity is also inifinite.

Hmm. I’m not really sure here friend. I have gone through your comments reading the excerpts from the books and I’m not really resonating much. Maybe I would have to read the whole book like you said.

It sounds like the inspiration for some of this was thinking about how there is only one. So yeah technically all service is to the self. But we choose to only love the individuated piece of “creator self” that we currently are or to love all of the creation unconditionally, thus loving all of your self as well.

I’m just not really sure where the concept of the devil and sacrifice come in?

How do you get from the concept of oneness to the idea that this is some devil who did some great misdeed to humanity?

If there is only one “creator self” how is it possible for anyone to do anything to humanity? It’s just one being doing things to itself.

I don’t get how that then becomes the devil.

And do you mean sacrifice symbolically? Like to give up ego and separation? I keep seeing the word sacrifice
everywhere but I’m not seeing the connection

the law of one itself is distorted somewhat and according
to other channelings like hidden hand the Ra material is about 80% accurate so imagine how distorted Christianity is. Trying to look at this through that lense is bound to lead to confusion in my opinion

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Sorry for the somewhat disordered posts. You brought up some really core issues here, my friend.

According to James Hinton, self is negation and will be obliterated in heaven, and this whole creation is not something added to heaven, but something subtracted. The whole creation is a not-being because it is a matrix constructed by Self/universal mind and different selfs(including the infinite Creator-Self) want to do different arbitrary things. In the physical realm, it is a Great Central Sun, emitting light inevitably from self to self. But in the spiritual realm, it is a black hole, a mediator between man and God. And as I mentioned in previous posts, the Confederation just referred to the Creator as the Creator-Self, the one who has the greatest self, who has the greatest negation, who rules this world, is the Devil.

The core idea may be that there is something more beyond the self(self may be referred to an entity iteslf, but the self here is consciousness/mind), something more beyond this creation, that is, the spiritual realm. And Devil is an evil spirit because it is separated from the spiritual realm(or Being-in-and-for-itself, so to speak) and man is a depraved spirit because it is fallen or else it would be one with God and not be a spirit. What is more, humans became finite spirits and regard any spirit in the spiritual realm as infinite, including the so-callede One Infinite Creator.

Material-body-wise and mind-wise, we are one with the Creator-Self. But spirit-wise, the spirit of man is distinct from spirit of the so-called Creator.

So by self-sacrifice the author is likely to mean give up your body and mind for the redemption of man, it is martydom. But how do we do it in normal human lives? I (so far) only find two places the author mentioned it:

How does this bear on the affairs of life ? I want to know the right thing to do: — regard the redemption, and be content; rejoice to be embarrassed, and at a loss; leave off thinking of yourself. "Do the loving thing—as you must do if you have escaped from self.

I think there is also a feeling thing here. We all feel what a self is. E.g. right now I am writing this post mainly to defend myself, rather to defend love. There is self involved in this and I am trying to stop regarding my self in everything I do and everything I think.

But is it not just another claim, how do I know it is truer than the Ra Material? Maybe because it is just so vast and integrated a system that is also consistent with many other claims. I have enought confidence this is the truth but not absolute certainty, just like no one is absolutely certain of earth being round or anything, even after they see it.

I forget to hit the reply button to specifically reply to you.

I’m still a bit confused but I understand better now.

How is this person coming to these conclusions? Like the Ra material was allegedly channeled but how is he concluding what you’re saying here?

Because honestly I’m not seeing any logic. You’re saying the central sun seems like it would be positive or creative to us but really it’s a black hole in the spiritual realm, which is somehow bad or damaging or something for that realm/the creator?

I’m completely lost as to the stuff about the devil as I believe the devil is nothing more than a thought form in our collective consciousness.

I also disagree that our spirit is separate from the creators or distinct.

It’s one huge aura. All the energy is the same. It is only vibrating at different rates depending where you go or look.

Both the uncreated eternal infinite, the inner planes/astral realms, and the material existence are all one in my eyes.

If the central sun functions as a black hole to the creator and is subtracting from the creator then that’s just fine. The only way it could have happened is through its own will. And the creator is infinite so there is no subtracting it.

Who’s to say the creator doesn’t manifest existence through this mechanism you suggest purposely?

If I have gotten the interpretation wrong I apologize just ignore the questions I asked.

Regardless I do think we may be at a crossroads in terms of agreement, seeing as I don’t even think the devil has a role in our creation, and I don’t see the absolute value in martyrdom either. It does indeed lack wisdom in my opinion.

Jesus planned pre incarnatively to be a martyr in order to cement his name and story within history and within our collective consciousness as the purest example of 4th density consciousness.

He expressed green ray 100%, which naturally leads to martyrdom. To graduate we need 51% it is said.

So while martyrdom is admirable it isn’t wise, and unless you have a plan like Jesus did and can do what he did I’m not sure it will spread as much light as if you had stayed alive longer. Just my take.

But this has been interesting, and I will continue to look into your sources here and give them a fair chance.

Thanks for coming here to post this even though it may go against the grain of the majorities suppositions.

I will say one thing, the source you’re linking uses the most confusing prose. The author has a very hard writing style to follow for me for some reason.

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In terms of express evidence, I have found two places that the author maybe has admitted he is also channeling:

I do not hold that I can construct a final system ; mine is but a step not more truly right than that which has rightly preceded ; only the present right. Dearest and most welcome of all men to me is the man who shall supersede me. His further and clearer vision is to me even as if it were my own. But it must be by a step forward that I am to be overthrown. I am not so foolish as to imagine that I, a mere channel for the surging tide of truth, can stop its ever advancing waves. It flows through me and goes on.

I speak now humanly : I know that this very death, this false reli- gion, must have been, to be the source of the life, but it is none the less a death ;

And in terms of truth, every sentence in these four volumes indicates they are not written by human. Because I have briefly skimmed other works by James Hinton and they succeed in making me yawn within 10 minutes, just like nearly every other book in the world than the Confederation’s messages and these four books. And these four books were in private circulation only and you will expect a minutest possibility that someone who is familiar with the Ra material will encuonter these four volumes, until now, Internet has made connecting the dots more possible.

To be honest, the author has not explicitly said this and this is how I picture it and is the result of me connecting the dots from other sources(namely, Hegel’s Phenomenology of Spirit, probably a work from negative higher sources though I have no evidence backing me up but again, it somehow keeps me awake while reading it). God is all in all, all Being is in other Beings and for other Beings, and Hegel mentioned Being-in-and-for-itself and Being-reflected-back-into-itself. The way I picture it is like a series of rectangle mirrors forming a circle and they are at such a angle to each other that the Love entering into its territories or emitting from its terrirories will inevitably be reflected back into itself. So not necessarily a classical black hole, but they are not Acting. And Spirit is Being and Acting as one.

The aforementioned statements are all in the spiritual realm and is at the Being level, not in the mind of the Creator-Self.

But I remembered a phrase: ‘As above, so below’. Does not the preceding statements be similar to what Quo described as a crystalization entity where the love/light from the creator will either be transmitted further by STO entities or be intercepted by STS entities. I think they are similar. But Quo’s crystalization is at mind level, but James Hinton’s Being theory is at the Being/spirit level. And could there be something beyond the Being level further? I don’t know. But each side(either Devil or God, or STO or STS) all claim their side is that which is. The key point is the self. The Devil or the STS entities put phenomenon for fact, namely they think that which is to the self(i.e. phenomenon) is that which is, while God asserts that the self is negation of Being and to self everything needs to be inverted.

This is also where I have not found the answer yet: if this creation is created from the mind of the Devil, why is there STO path? Maybe there is a dynamic relationship between God and the Devil, if someone does something right, it will generate a result, like scientific experiments. And in the Being level, there are also two paths, you either become one with God(are redeemed) or you become one with the Devil(are unredeemed), i.e. you either deny the self or you assert the self and I think service-to-others and service-to-self is like Newton’s theory, they are encomapssed and expanded by the theory of self-assertion and self-denial(Einsteins theory).

Let me expand a little further. The way why service-to-others works is because in other selves there is much less self contained in them from the self point of view(taking also into account all is self in this creation). So you basically are practicing self-denial, but only to a certain degree, but not totally. And like I said, when you do something the right way, it will generate rewards, via the Law. This creation is ultimately for teaching man as a child, maybe by the serpent playing as the bad guy.

Edit: But this may be confusing. That is, given that all is self, should we not only sacrifice our own selves but also sacrifice other selves as well? This is clearly not right. Maybe we should just sacrifice our own selves. And I found the following quotes:

Is this true : our being is God’s life : arises from God’s self-control or self-sacrifice : our life arises from our own self-sacrifice. For it is life that resists passion and causes life. God’s life, being us, is the re- sistance of passion in us. So I shall see by aid of the phenomenal. Existence is not moral, as existence ; but is the result of moral action.

Here is a help to that about ‘families.’ At present, from our ’ self’ point of view, other selves of course are better for us to regard than our own ; because there is less of self in it. But when we are delivered from our own self, then other selves will get right to us. It is like casting the beam out of our own eye to see clearly.

Observe, too, how negative terms, with 'self’ prefixed, are good: self-sacrifice, self-denial, self-control. Altruistic sacrifice, denial, control (which are selfishness, hardness, tyranny) these are bad. Is not the opposite to self ’ altruistic '? altruistic love, knowledge, sufficiency, &c.

Must we not look at this self, or consciousness (clearly they are one), in connection with the unity of humanity ? Other men also are conscious, but is it not truly one self, one dead humanity, one negation of man ? So only by our own ‘not’ could we perceive this ‘not’ in others ; this is the deep oneness : without our ‘not,’ or consciousness, theirs were not.Think how our consciousness is truly human, and not our own.

I found this quote and I am pretty sure now that not only Ra, but all of the civilizations in the universe, are deceived by the Devil/self:

Now, to this it might be said : You make up a Devil of your own, making it to be merely the self, you do not receive the declarations of the Bible, wh speaks of him as we cannot do of any self. But I do give up my own conceptions in obedience to scripture ; and hold the self to be not what it seems to us but what the Bible declares it : not some element of humanity, however we may try to conceive it, but the Devil the enemy of God and man, who deceiveth the whole universe. Thus accepting our conception of the self from revelation, we find in- numerable mysteries at once explained. The self is not that by which man is, but that by wh he is dead and destroyed ; it is not the basis of that life wh God gives, but the entrance into us of him that has the power of death : not singly and in each man separate and distinct, but it is one great self, the sole evil Being whom Christ was manifested to destroy. It is the self that is the Devil, not such as we naturally think it, but such as God reveals it. We are deluded and deceived in our idea and feeling of the self. This wh we, in our illusion, think and feel as the ‘I,’ the man, that wh we shd regard and serve, this the Bible presents to us quite differently. In this self service we have been render- ing a willing homage to our great foe ; deceived and blinded to our own ruin.

One of the earliest books in the Old Testament, Job is relevant. God was having a conversation with the “Accuser,” commonly accepted as the Devil. To test if Job truly loved God, the Accuser is allowed to test Job by making him suffer. Although Job is a righteous man, all his friends blame him for his suffering. It’s surprising how relatable this is today after thousands of years.

What in us is the accuser? The Ego blames and shames. The Ego suffers. The Ego is the not-self we construct under the Veil that shades us from the love of the Creator and is the stand-in for the true self. The original sin is the idea that we are separate from the Creator. We are cut off from our deep mind which knows ourself, other selves.

How does Job resolve his suffering? He remains thankful that his life, his present moment is given to him by the Creator-- accepting what is given, as Ra puts it. Rather than accusing God, he retains gratitude with the certainty that each moment contains love.

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