The cycle of Octaves

I have been studying the Law of One books and subjects on this forum for a few years now. I love the Ra material as it gives a profound feasible explanation for what life is and how it has evolved from the concepts of Oneness to Many Ness and the various experiments by the Logoi to create the Octave which we are all experiencing .
By the way this is my first post on Bring4th so a big hello to everyone here !
There is however One major question or concern that has stuck in my mind for all these years. According to Ra we are all progressing through 3rd density towards the harvest either as Wanderers, repeaters or maybe even graduates from 2nd density, and over a vast amount of time we will all eventually make our way to 7th density and back to source. However then at some point we will again start a new experience in the next Octave and presumably begin again at 1st density to ascend the new Octave. If this is the case why is there such urgency to accelerate 3rd density here on Earth by the experiment of the Veil, Catalysts, Duality and the subsequent degree of ignorance and suffering we see all around us. Why not have harmonious conditions like there were before the experiment of the veil and take our time to graduate through 3rd density. After all its only a matter of “time” before we will be experiencing the next Octave and the next 3rd Density and next and the next throughout all eternity according to the LOO data.
One explanation I have read from Ra that gives some clarification is the following quote :Thus the Creator has a “more vivid, varied, and intense experience of Creator by Creator”.
This would seem to indicate that the Creator would prefer to have a “more vivid, varied, and intense experience of Creator by Creator” rather than a monochrome existence of harmony, STO and pleasant interactions.
Perhaps I have answered my own questions in as much as that even a life here on Earth is more exciting, challenging and intense with the inclusion of barriers, opposition and individuation together with the drive and impetus to understand the mysteries, paradoxes and limitations of human existence.
I suppose it solves the question of why does the mountaineer risk his life to climb a dangerous mountain peak, why does the entrepreneur work day and night to achieve success, why does the adept study and practice daily to achieve enlightenment and freedom from reincarnation etc etc
Perhaps another quote from Ra is relevant
"Consider, if you will, the tendency of those who are divinely happy, as you call this distortion, to have little urge to alter or better their condition. Such is the result of the mind/body/spirit which is not complex. There is the possibility of love of other-selves and service to other-selves, but there is the overwhelming awareness of the Creator in the self. The connection with the Creator is that of the umbilical cord.
The security is total. Therefore, no love is terribly important; no pain terribly frightening; no effort, therefore, is made to serve for love or to benefit from fear. –
Yes it does answer my question but I cant help thinking sometimes its a hell of a tough life down here and a bit more love and harmony would be really nice. lol
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Michael

I agree it’s tough. My life isn’t that hard, but I struggle with my energy sensitivity, always feeling energy and it’s often unpleasant.

But I can’t imagine taking forever to get back to Source. I wish the veil weren’t so thick. Perhaps having a partial veil would have worked well.

With Earth’s ascension to 4th density, duality is going away. So that will be good.

Hello and welcome to the forums. :slight_smile:

Thank you for sharing this thoughtful question. Here are some of my random thoughts about it all:

This is how it was before the veil. But some, like one who experiences an endless vacation, some may get lazy and complacent about their spiritual journey. A vacation is only a vacation because it’s a break from what is different. If you are on an endless vacation, it is no longer a vacation; it is the way of life. And I think without the personal motivation for spiritual growth, you would become static in your spiritual journey. I feel if any souls are static in the creation, it may halt the completion of the logos.

Law of One - 41.8
Questioner: When the first density is formed, the— I am going to make a statement of my understanding and if you will correct me. I will…

I intuitively see the first density being formed by an energy center that is a vortex. This vortex then causes these spinning motions that I have mentioned before of the light, vibration which is light, which then starts to condense into the materials of the first density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct as far as your reasoning has taken you. However, it is well to point out that the Logos has the plan of all the densities of the octave in potential completion before entering the space/time continuum in first density. Thus the energy centers exist before they are manifest.

This experiment is now wrapping up. The Logoi are always collectioning data from these experiments and sharing amongst the other Logoi in order to refine the process further.

Q’uo - December 3, 2016
The nature of various Logoi within the Infinite Creation is various, shall we say, for each has the free will to provide a means by which the One Creator may know itself with greater variety and intensity, for indeed this is the reason for the Creation. Thus, there are some Logoi who have chosen to join forces with others in which you may call “an experimental basis,” to see if there might be more variety or intensity of experience possible by the joining of these forces.

Each Logos has the ability to create a system of planetary entities that will provide it with further means by which to offer to the Creator experience that reveal itself more fully. Whether there may be two or three or more Logoi involved in such an experiment is up to the free will choice of those who share this desire to join together with others of their kind to provide an experience that is enough at variance from what could be produced by a single Logos, that the experiment is undertaken.

We cannot begin to describe how the effects of more than one Logos within a galactic system, or as you would call it, a solar system, would enhance the experience of the Creator by the Creator and each of the entities within the care of the single Logos, the multiple Logoi, or what have you. We apologize for not being able to be more precise in our descriptions, but we have a language to work with which does not include the various qualities that would be necessary to cover in the description of such binary systems or trinary systems, shall we say.

As far as we are aware, the sub Logos that is your sun body has always been singular in its expression of its creation for the One Creator.

My personal opinion since waking up and realizing the effect of the veil, is that it didn’t have to be this way. It’s too thick to the point where some entities believe this is their one and only life. They can’t even fathom being infinite in nature, let alone believing they’ve been reincarnating over and over and over again. It’s causing more and more distortions within the illusion that were not known, and it’s created such sorrow that those within the sinkhole of indifference is great.

If you look from the center of the galaxy outwards, the potential of the veil thickness goes from none to extremely thick. At the center, you may have entities with no veil, living a veil-free existence. Some may progress, some may not. It all depends on each entities will, determination and motivation.

A thinner veil gives you societies like Ra’s, where they lived in a Buddhist-like society while in third density, where instead of working the majority of their lives like we do on Earth, they analyzed their dreams and worked on their spiritual progression. They had a far more laid back atmosphere to evolve. It was a more lax environment and they progressed through the densities quickly, but once they got so far, they got stuck. Because of the intensity of the catalysts on this planet, if one were to make it through the densities here, the sixth density and beyond would be far easier that it’s been for those of Ra. But Ra has been stuck for awhile so they’ve been doing all they can in order to progress, but this had led to some problems for the planet (Egypt) and has haulted their progress. That is why they are almost overly involved in helping, because they are trying to generate enough positive energy in order to polarize to seventh density.

Then you take beings near the edges of the galaxy where the veil is potentially heavier, all they do is go around conquering each other, like the reptilians, Greys, etc.

As you can see, there has been mixed results in the experiment of the veil of forgetting.

The Creator is collecting data, and the One will use that data to further refine the experiment of creation.

This subject was recently addressed on another thread you may find helpful too: When was the Veil implemented?

Here is a summary I had put together on another forum that sums up the sequence:

I have been reading through the channelings/Law of One and was drawn to a bunch that talked about the time lateral we were put on as a result of the difficult position we had ended up in on Earth due to outside influences and infringement of free will. This is what I pieced together so far.

First, Mars makes their planet inhabitable for the third density physical vehicle, they are genetically manipulated by the by the guardians of their planet, and are some of the first entities seeded on Earth. This is considered an infringement on free will, so the quarantine is put into place on planet Earth.

Then, in trying to help the planet, groups are sent to Atlantis, South America, and Egypt.

Atlantis sinks, South America uses Law of One teachings to include things like blood sacrifices, and Egypt uses Law of One teachings to form elitist groups for more power and control in the form of government.

What they teach to these groups is still used in how people are to this very day, and these failed experiments caused a stricter quarantine to be place on the planet as well as moving us into a “time lateral.”

This channeling refers to the stricter quarantine and the time lateral further:

What I have pieced together through these channelings and a lot more I have not included so you do not need to read a novel to enjoy this thread, is the following:

Our solar system is having a lot of difficulties. Maldek blew themselves up, Mars scorched their planet, and Earth has turned into an experiment planet with a lot of mixed results, but also have almost blown themselves up multiple times. Guardians are infringing upon free will of entities, high density entities are misjudging the populations readiness for spiritual enlightenment, and it got so bad they had to create a parallel reality in order to give us more opportunities to turn away from violence and towards the love of the One Infinite Creator. This isn’t even including the rest of the logos, as there are a lot of books published talking about various races from other star systems, such as the Orion constellation, where entities were at least as equally bellicose.

I think this time lateral explains why there are “conspiracy theories” (I dislike this term greatly) about this being a prison planet and about how we are stuck in a reincarnation trap. It just makes sense that that particular vibration would be sensed and misinterpreted by one who does not understand why that feeling would be there in a spiritual sense.

Maybe this is all a way of saying that the veil of forgetting was a bad idea? Or, that making any planet an experiment out of desperation is also a very bad thing. Not a mistake, but full of a lot of surprises as Ra would say. Seriously though, this logos has some issues. Apparently this time lateral experiment has been far more successful then the other attempts to help, but sometimes the energy of this place says something entirely different to me.

I conclude with this final channeling:

Q’uo - April 14, 2007
Jim: The second question is: “In such a vast Milky Way, did the time lateral experiment happen in other planets before? If so, are the results always positively successful?”

Q’uo
We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. Such experiments have occurred from time to time in the past and the results have been checkered.

There is, perhaps, nearly an even division between those experiments in which the various groupings of entities upon the planet turned from strife to a more unified view of the planetary population as one tribe and those that were not able to achieve graduation in either polarity.

Some of those experiments succeeded. There have been other attempts at, shall we say, cleaning up the energies of an entire planetary system where it was not possible to bring entities into one united spiritual being that could be called a social complex.

The difference in planet Earth’s experiment is that the sub-Logos chose an experiment which was extremely rich in the full play and travel of free will, so that the veil was quite thick and almost impenetrable. This heavy veiling and full play of free will has resulted in entities turning not to the Creator but to their own intellects and to their own abilities to find solutions to what they perceive as challenges or problems.

In previous experiments, the veil was thinner because there was not so heavy a veiling and there was not so much free will. The nature of third-density entities upon your planet is, therefore, somewhat more primitive or has a tendency to remain primitive longer than on planetary experiments where the veil has been thinner and it has been more obvious to entities, by virtue of the thinning of the veil, that all are one.

In the absence of any hint from the outer world that all entities are one interconnected being, the tendency has been, upon planet Earth during this cycle, for entities to find reasons to separate rather than unite and to disagree and come to embattlement rather than seeking with all diligence for points of commonality that become a consensus for gradual and global change. At this point, we can say that the probability is that your experiment shall, to some extent, be successful.

The outcome which those of negative polarity in higher densities would like to have occur upon planet Earth is that the majority of entities upon planet Earth decide that they are only safe and in proper spiritual alignment if they can live in fear and continuously find enemies to fight in order to express the feelings of winning the day and controlling what is seen as available sources of power, and we mean this not only physically but also metaphysically.

If a planetary social complex became involved in what you could call a “knot of fear,” then they might voluntarily choose not to rejoin the main track. This would mean that this particular planet would be locked in a permanent third-density cycle without the third-density energy needed to progress. This would make this planet a slave planet in which entities fought and suffered endlessly and created food for the fifth-density entities who have long eyed this planet with greed and the hope of conquest.

Again, we cannot know the outcome of that which is completely at your free will. We can only tell you that the probability/possibility vortices have greatly opened in a favorable way within the past generation or half century of this planet’s history. Things look hopeful, shall we say, that the rapidly increasing awareness of the need to choose a better way than strife for relating to one’s fellow beings is needed. And as this realization spreads and as the hunger for true peace, union and love among all people grows, there is very likely to be a positive outcome at the end of this time lateral.

Many thanks for your reply. I agree with your summary about the effect of the veil and that it didn’t have to be this way. It appears to me that there would be an ideal balance between the thickness and permeability of the veil to give the maximum experience for the Creator but which also includes a challenging but efficient evolution for us as sub sub logoi and intrinsically an aspect of the Creator. It is certainly an experiment and getting that balance right has not been easy for our Logos.
As Ra said :
Questioner: This seems to be a carefully planned or engineered stage of development. Can you tell me anything of the origin of this plan for the development?

Ra: I am Ra. We go back to previous information. Consider and remember the discussion of the Logos. With the primal distortion of free will, each galaxy developed its own Logos. This Logos has complete free will in determining the paths of intelligent energy which promote the lessons of each of the densities given the conditions of the planetary spheres and the sun bodies.
I will also be reading your other post with great interest and will reply tomorrow, thank you again for your insight

I understand how you feel and thanks for your reply. It does seem the veil is very thick on this planet and the current experiment a bit too extreme. On the other hand any being who makes it through to higher densities will have made enormous progress in their evolution. Just like the mountaineer who makes it to the summit despite all the hardships. As above so below seems appropriate.
Very nice to be in contact

I like your title " Spiritual Chaos ", it reflects in your words and matches well the law of confusion in our 3rd density. Your summary was really interesting. Also the data from Q’uo I have not read before as I have mostly focused on the Ra material due to the deep trance state it was channeled from. However the data on the time lateral, quarantine and actions by the Guardians was fascinating. It also aligns well with the mass awakening happening on the planet now and gives much hope for our future.
Nevertheless Ra says they had a much more harmonious and “easier” 3rd density experience and were not plagued by the concept of money (which dominates most negative and corrupt aspects of our planet ) and nowhere near the same amount of bellicosity and warmongering that we experience here. Even so they did not get a complete positive harvest so we really have our work cut out here.
It makes me think about the idea of taking on too much catalyst in an incarnation and being overwhelmed by it and not progressing at all.
Many years ago when I was in Australia ( I am not 21years old, that was just the age when I really started to wake up ) I was practicing Kriya Yoga to raise the Kundalini and the teacher - Guru was very adamant about doing it on a very slow gradient as if it was raised too quickly it could bring about much imbalance and sometimes psychosis. The reason I mention this is because it could be that the veil has been applied too thickly here and has contributed to the overwhelm and insanity on this planet.
Anyway your information is very much appreciated and I look forward to more interactions. Mike

Yes I agree. It seems almost as if God must be literally willing to be insane and evil and there is no way around that. I always think of from the perspective of the universal mother and how all are my children and every horrible thing every done was done by my children to my children and its absolute horror. I always go to worse case scenarios (holocaust, serial killers, torture, etc…)What I wonder, is how desperate is God to know itself…I mean like chill out dude, like why do you need Hell to know yourself!!!..Ok so maybe this density and region of the logos is especially horrifying and hard…maybe we’re in the worse of it, in which case I think OK God is just tinkering around…It doesn’t really mean to be so horrifying it didn’t KNOW what it was doing when it gave this level of awareness FREE WILL…Hence…all the level of channeling and NDE and miracles and prophets etc…I mean we have had a lot of entities trying to help us. But again it does seem like a lot of emphasis is placed on humans having the BRAINS to search to get themselves out. And it just seems they literally are too led by social norms to look for REAL answers. IDK, but one justification I’ve heard is that this is fairly short lived, in the grand scheme of things…eternity and all (LOL)…75,000 years playing with hell is short. IDK. I think God really kinda fucked up this time. To me, from a universal Mother point of view there is no denying this. I think God has a real problem with TIME. It thinks cause its not linear for IT that its not linear for others but hey, I’m pretty sure God itself is narcissistic and irresponsible. Since we reflect that. But or there is no way what’s happened to entities wouldn’t have happened I’m sorry. and when I had this thought I about melted. Because I always wanted to think of God as all powerful and all purposeful and all good…but maybe God is a little bit irresponsible, and narcissistic, and just stupid. Even if IT is totally confident since IT knows all is connected and everything balances back towards LOVE. I mean I’m only Human I’m not just eternal I am also totally and completely finite. And only live a few years and am totally stunned by this ILLUSION. Actually I just answered my own question…ONCE you realize totally and completely (and of course logic leads you there). that all of this is illusion, THEN you realize God is justified. IT makes total sense…BUT what’s so upsetting is how much entities believe and fall for the illusion and that is REAL. I’ve seen my children suffer. Yep If anything I look forward to rising in power so I can sit next to God and ask this very question, but what does seem true from this reality stand point, is that not asking this question too hard is very important. We have to use this limited awareness to allow ourselves to OPEN into pain and release its atomic bomb inherent energy. We have to allow ourselves to let our EGOS dissolve. Our egos cause so much of the pain we complain to God for causing…So we must be the solution we are angry at God for causing. We must be the GODS we wish GOD was!!! We are God in the present moment.

Your input was thoughtful. I sometimes wonder too why God allows all bad things to happen. I’m amazed at how much punishment God can endure through us. I’m not sure if we’re God in the moment. I wouldn’t want to be God with its awareness. But I have a long way to go on my journey back to Source. Maybe with ascension things will get better. I have no idea. Or maybe worse before they get better.

I chose this name when I first “woke up,” and as my spiritual awakening has progressed, I’ve realized more and more how appropriate this is. I’m always trying to make sense of the “spiritual chaos.” :wink:

I believe this is because these channelings really show a reflection as to what is happening in the world. You can see it clearly when you pause and take a deep breath and really see. And by that, I mean, feel with your heart what is happening, and let your mind interpret it as best as you can. All the synchronicities are there for one to pluck out of the field of energy to examine closely by our own hearts.

All planets of this octave are having an extremely hard time around the veil. The veil was a lot thinner of Venus, so those of Ra lived in a far more harmoniously society that placed value on spiritual studies, and even they had a harvest of only 6 million.

Law of One - 89.39

Questioner: I just can’t understand why they would think that a planet that was doing as well as Ra was doing, as far as I can tell, would need wanderers in order to help with a harvest. Was this at an early point in Ra’s third density?

Ra: I am Ra. It was in the second cycle of 25,000 years. We had a harvest of six out of thirty, to speak roughly, millions of mind/body/spirit complexes, less than 20%. Wanderers are always drawn to whatever percentage has not yet polarized and come when there is a call. There was a call from those which were not positively polarized as such but which sought to be positively polarized and sought wisdom, feeling the compassion of other-selves upon Venus as complacent or pitying towards other-selves.

In short, this “experiment” of the veil has not been well received, anywhere in this octave. There is exhaustion and complacency being felt by those souls who have been doing this for far too long. I believe the Creator, who is always adapting the experiment of the Creation, will have to self-correct. I feel the best way to help this planet is to lift the veil as soon as possible. Entitles need to remember their Oneness with all, as it could help those get a glimpse of the Creator in all other-selves, thus being able to work more actively in the green-ray energy center, bringing us into fourth density unity.

There are great changes on the horizon for all of us.

Love & light to you my friend.

I feel you have a gentle soul and a very quiet intuition that always rings true to me. You should believe in your intuitions more, as they are always exactly what I need to hear. I feel you are closer to the source than you think. :heart:

These are trying times for all of us, but there are great things on the horizon, just hold on. :slight_smile: It will get easier.

Hi @mike21, the same questions have been on my mind. This might appear as not directly relevant to the octave problem the way you frame it, but believe me that it will answer every burning question in your soul: “Meditations on the Tarot” (by Valentin Tomberg, but published anonymously) are necessary reading for anyone interested not just in the laws that rule our universe, but in how to navigate this beautiful life as an incarnated human being and how to make sense of the world directly around us. It’s a difficult read, but I promise the rewards are incredibly rich. Love, Maksymilian

Thanks for the reference. By the way, for French speakers such as myself, it’s good to know that the original version of this book is in French: “Méditations sur les 22 arcanes majeurs du Tarot”.

To maksymilian Many thanks for your reply and for the reference for Meditations on the Tarot.

I have looked at the book reviews on amazon and it is amazing the profound effect its had on many many people.
I have never come across this book before but will get a copy and dig into it with great gusto.
I will let you know how it goes !
From your understanding how did you feel it relates and compares to the Ra material ?
Love Mike

My pleasure! In many respects, the book provides the other side of the coin: the account of the history of the human seeking for truth, and advice on how to live our incarnated lives in a manner that is testament to God’s infinite love and compassion, which ultimately is the most important part of our beautiful journey.

Perhaps even more importantly for us seekers, Tomberg (an esotericist with 40 years of experience) provides excellent advice on how to stay out of harm’s way when exploring the spiritual realms and making use of higher energies on this plane. I have personally experienced darkness and demonic presences in my life, and it would have been easier to deal with such experiences with the knowledge the author gives us in his beautiful book.

Happy reading!

Some additional interesting information on the subject of Octaves I have just found on the Wes Penre Papers, available on his web site and You Tube.
Each Universe has its own goal, just like you and I have goals in a certain lifetime. A Universe is like one of our lifetimes on a much higher level, lives its cycle, just like us, and when a cycle is completed, it “dies”, takes its collective experiences with it and it is all sent to the Prime Creator as a collective experience of a whole universe.

Even if all life forms eventually leave a dying universe, which has become depleted of energy, the collective memories of everything that has been experienced from its beginning to its end are contained long after the last intelligent being has left. A dying universe, keeping its collective experiences, then implodes into its central giant black hole, and perhaps merges with the Prime Creator. Then, this giant “sphere” of collective experience is once again, in a new cycle of experiences, now on a higher Octave, continuing its existence from the beginning of a new probability, with new goals, bringing its experiences to higher levels existences–a new “Big Bang” will happen; a new enormous cosmic orgasm, and from this gigantic orgasm life will start all over again, having creator gods seeding new worlds; a universe with other kinds of goals this time. The Universe “reincarnates”.