We always thought that the “higher self” concept that is mentioned in the law of one to be strange… our “higher self” is “higher selves”, as in two distinct voices with the same energy signature as ourselves. This to us kind of shattered the whole “higher self” concept, If it’s supposed to be “you” in the “future,” why would one need two?
How would one know if they were channeling a service to self entity? Based on the information provided above, they could at least use electrophysiological markers of working memory to at least “test” in a sense whether the material was as “truthful” as possible. In the true definition of the law of one, one who was “service to others” would not lie during this test and there should be some indication with an EEG machine. And even then, with Emotion AI and engineering, these “feelings” are beginning to be successfully faked for seemingly “non-threatening” things like auto chat responders for websites as an example. What happens when they use this technology to create something with more control and power? Is that when something like Benford’s Law would come in play to “weed out” the “bad” information?
The definition of “demon” seems like a confusing concept. What classifies one as a “demon” per say? Can our definition of that be influenced by “thought forms?” There are a lot of movies, TV shows, arts inspired by the Christian definition of “hell” and “demons” that may influence what we are actually seeing or experiencing while being around one who is “possessed.”
There is the scenario with the priests dowsing the “possessed” person with holy water, reading bible versions and sending it’s “sorry butt back to hell-o.”
Or there is the more loving scenario, of one would may be struggling with their personal “demons,” who may be feeling overwhelmed and needing someone to be there for them, that has been misinterpreted by the “church” as madness. Can you image what they would think if you tried to tell the church half the stuff most experience during a “mystical” experience? From their biblical “perspective,” they may filter what that “demon” is experiencing through the wrong lens.
This is just a thought experiment on conditioning, biases and using them to create “flower-glasses” in order to see the world in a way they deem is the most “flowery” to them.
Rose-coloured or flower coloured, each lens with present a different point of view.
See this poses an issue in that it doesn’t offer a balanced perspective. There has to be some scientific background, some consistency and continuity to the “experiement” in order to make sure that balance is maintained.
Use an EEG with channeller, as well as provide psychological evaluation to make sure those providing said information (that so many follow blindly for years without question, doubt and unwavering “faith”). Make sure there is no room for lies.
Especially in the “golden age of spirituality,” where everyone is hungry to learn more about the origins of “who” they may be, “why” they are here, and so forth, those providing this advice need to take responsibility for the advice they are giving and the “consequences” of how said advice affects those who are listening to it.
Spirituality needs to be paired with scientific methods in order to know the material being “provided” isn’t just met with a “take what resonates” disclaimer and that those “providing” this service are balanced themselves before giving out this “information” during a major time of “4th density” transformation.
I don’t know why it would hurt for channelers to use EEG, or any other method to challenge the “research.”
It’s ironic that there are nothing “research-like” within it’s construct. (Other than what Don was trying to do)
In short,
If you say you can walk on water, then why don’t we start testing it out?
Why blame the weather, the tools, or a plethora of excuses to even start with any test at all?
But the hundreds of dollars of fees for any spiritual advancement aren’t questioned.
(the sadhguru “inner engineering” course cost thousands if you are serious and want to take the whole thing.)
(same with any spiritual retreats etc. etc.)
Without diving into that though, and staying with the questions at hand.
Why is there a sense of disempowerment to those who claimed to be “special” when we ask for validity check?
The worst case is that the whole thing gets binned and debunked. But who does that let down?
The fans? the followers? the content-creators? the beliefs? So in the end, why is it so scary for the belief to be challenged?
“Santa Clause isn’t real?” and that takes the magic away from the story? But Santa doesn’t claim to be researching communication with aliens in different dimension.
Inspiration comes from the most beautiful of places.
You know… we saw someone on YouTube in the last year who actually was using an EEG machine during meditation to test your “level of self actualization” or “spiritual intelligence” as he calls it. He used a device called the Muse 2, which looks like some sci-fi device one would strap to your head in a movie to “mind-control” you. Hahaha…
These are “more affordable” than most, ranging from $300 USD and above.
So basically this wouldn’t even cost thousands of dollars for “channellers” to test. Even Rock Creek and their million dollar donations should be able to provide each of the “Q’uo” channellers with this equipment to make their material as “legitimate” as the originals.
But… using the perfect example from above, clearly this self proclaimed “guru” should be psychologically tested before his information would be actually “legit.” Anyone who puts “self actualization” onto a scale that they call “spiritual intelligence” has a very unbalanced perspective on spirituality. And funnily enough, he’s most known for his series of videos on the law of one…
This is just as ridiculous as muscle testing, like mentioned by the above YouTuber, based on David Hawking’s muscle testing book, “Power vs Force.” Even if one person is doing all the testing, like Hawkings, his personal opinion would influence those he was testing, even if those being “tested” were “blind” to what he was testing. But this isn’t taken into consideration, the material is just “blindly” accepted. This is not a balanced way to test. Which is why we refer to this again:
Lies can be from personal biases, conditioned responses, the mood of the “moment” of testing, etc. That is why there must be “safe guards” put into place to avoid confusion, manipulation and dangerous mind-control techniques that are being utilized by a large variety of these “spiritual” influences.
Right, what is the most one can lose by getting a little wet? At least you know.
Since I grew up in the 90s, I’ll quote: They did it all for the “nookie.”
Ego, fame, the “illusion” of money and power, sexual grandeur… lol It’s obvious when you can literally “feel” them begging you to “picture” them with their shirt off.
Their focus is definitely not on what they are trying to “sell.”
It’s pretty obvious what they stand for at that point. But even then, a little “scientific” testing could clear up the confusion.
We know that this thread is about EEG and channelers, but I felt this was very related to the topic at hand:
I never understood why someone like Eckhart Tolle, Tony Robbins, etc. etc. need to speak in an auditorium with thousands and thousands of people. Why not speak in an open auditorium? That way you may attract those who genuinely resonate with the material and not those who thinks they can “buy” their way to “enlightenment” by purchasing some course, book, device, etc. etc.
Money should NEVER be involved in our healing. But then, this is the world “we” created, and if money is something that needs to come into play, then why not shell out a little bit to make sure no one is psychologically damaged by those with psychological damage themselves, or have extremely dishonest motivations for “providing” material that “resonates.”
Didn’t Bentinho Massaro use the law of one and the “wanderer” concept as the “core” of his teachings? There was an article that drifted our way last year that spoke of a “member” committing suicide at his retreat.
And is Bentinho Massaro taking responsibility for what he puts out into the world? Screenshot taken today:
Then there is David Wilcock, who we first saw him on Ancient Aliens back in 2012. Didn’t he also work with Carla and Gary at some point? There are “channellings” in the l/l library that are channeled from his “personal guidance system,” which is called “The Three.” So apparently anyone who lives with Carla and Gary are fit to channel automatically? How do they determine how one is qualified?
David Wilcock also has several pdfs where he “remembers” his “wanderer nature.” So does being “certified” by the “experts” at Rock Creek as a “legit wanderer” make you automatically gifted at channelling?
In the Aaron/Q’uo dialogues, where Carla channels with another one of her close friends, they “back” this up very clearly.
Aaron/Q’uo Dialgues, September 23, 1994
I want to emphasize, then, the wanderer may be highly evolved in some areas—an outstanding French horn player with great understanding of musical theory—but he or she still must learn the correct hand position to hold the bow or place the fingers on the violin. What he or she brings to the incarnation is that advanced skill for which a need is perceived. For example, a wanderer of our acquaintance who is in his first human incarnation is what you might term a computer wizard. He is offering skills and understandings gained on other planes for which it was clear the Earth was ready. There are two ways to bring those teachings to Earth. One is channeling. One is for a being to incarnate into human form and teach it. Neither way is better than the other.
If their “channel friends” say its ok, then who are we to question it?
Wait… there feels like something confusing about this whole equation…
Also there is, “the pyramid code” which was “provided” by Jason Shurka and also promoted by Aaron Abke as a “text” that was in “alignment” with the law of one. Who legitimized this “document?” Well, apparently a “secret organization” called TLS, or “the light system.”
A lot of people “claim” to be in “alignment” with “channellers”… so it should be simple, right?
Maybe just prove it with EEG machines and keep it as balanced as possible instead of letting favouritism rule instead.
Muse is definitely another great device to look into. Much more affordable!
These other topics you mentioned and the articles are great. It does prove a point that spiritual novelty and proclamation from a person or an organization should be examine or challenged for validity.
Why? Well, to simply avoid the exact “warnings” that the Ra materials spoke of.
Moses himself couldn’t even “discern” when he hauled the stones down to “teach” his people.
When you follow the paper trail and see the bottom line from all the “influencers” and or “groups” you listed, you can absolutely see there were money to be made, and fame to be absorbed.
Yet, all of that is “a ok” under the gist and sake of “dissemination” of the law of one.
In session 37
Don spoke extensively about how to disseminate and had his own ideas/agenda about how to go about it.
But of course, he wasn’t the only one, and with him being gone, other agenda can be carried out.
Another good point to raise is that the lawofone.info hosted by Tobey Wheelock serves as a “contrast” to the issues mentioned.
There are no “advertisement” or any marketing/business model apply to his website.
On the surface, the reason for Rock Creek to “allow” Tobey to host that website is because he was behind the relistening project and helped tremendously with the work.
Mentioned here at the bottom of the “copyright” section.
So without pulling legal stunts and copyright infringement. Tobey get to have the material posted on lawofone.info
But why?..
on l/l website, the 106 sessions are also there. Wouldn’t it be easier to just have Tobey’s name and credit mentioned and glorified like the other core members at the organization/homepage?
The only big differences that I see is that there are no mentioning of Tobey on the l/l website at all.
(Which raises other questions, like why are there no credits posted on l/l home page about Tobey? other than the copyright “good job, but no” tone.)
While on the lawofone.info, Tobey direct his readers to l/l for supplementary reading. What’s up with that?
Discrepancies, and there are many things that doesn’t add up.
But again though, like I have said in the other thread, these things are really left for individual person to seriously use their own “discernment and intuition.”
It’s just a test at the end of the day, and like you said. This would help bring legitimacy and credibility to the organization and group, and even bringing light to the niche framework of metaphysics.
The material should produce free-thinkers and liberate souls, not creating faithful-followers who pity and label you as lost or confused.
I applaud you for raising so many points that challenges the beliefs and constructs of the materials, and I hope that it doesn’t outcast you for simply questioning.
I digress,
But going back on topic.
I truly believe that science is a good emulsifier for anything that is “spiritual/divine” with grounded reality.
Until you can discern brownies from horseshits without any of your senses, then we still need to be grounded in our assessment.
Especially when the indirect responsibility for those who committed suicide are present.
Another funny thing is that after Carla’s passing, there isn’t a single direct interaction towards the general public. They are only reserved for “like-minded” people and promotional events.
It’s a common practice for businesses to maintain anonymity so allegation and legal issues can’t hold core members accountable.
Shutting down old bring4th was a very sound legal move, as it was created by Carla and can bring direct issues to the company/organization.
The side forums/hosts are “fan-made” so it has no affect, or legal residue.
Also the absolute silence and non-interaction with the general public from core members/staffs mitigate complex issues as well.
Again, very different from the Don and Carla’s era. Don was open to be on t.v. or talking to people about his research, and Carla was not afraid to interact with other wanderers and seekers.
I digress again,
But I do hope that people see the effort of trying to validate the present channeled materials IS to help!
Not blatantly rejecting the validity of the information/messages.
One infinite is split to many, how many? quadrillion perhaps…
Higher Self is reckoned by other words as well, such as “True Self”, “Atman” and “Holy Spirit”.
Yes it’s you in the ‘future’ so to speak, as time and space is also an illusion and actually not linier.
It’s the you with billions or quadrillions identities, male and also female, human and other species even not on earth, experienced billions or quadrillions incarnation, on billions or quadrillions space and time context.
By the type of message being delivered.
There are distinctive characteristics as STS and STO are opposing in polarity.
Thus rather than focusing on “who” better focusing on the “what” is STS and STO.
The famous case mentioned by Ra was how Moses met Yahweh and ten commandments.
Having said that, Moses was actually very STO / Positive oriented entity.
I would say Demon = 4th or 5th Service To Self / Negative entity.
I tend to say that “possession” and “trance channeling” to be technically similar.
The physical layer of 3rd density entity body is temporarily being controlled by other entities.
This can also be true, as 4th/5h STS entities need frequency compatibility or invitation based on free will to ‘work’ with 3rd density entities. The mechanism is also true for 4th/5th STO entities.
Which part doesn’t offer a balanced perspective?
For example, do we need EEG or other devices to experience dreaming while we asleep?
Let’s say there’s an individual who never experienced dreaming or sleeping.
Let’s say it’s an AI based Robot.
How can we ‘prove’ to the robot that dreaming while sleeping exist?
The probable answer might be, we do not need to.
If it’s not a robot, let’s say it’s a human then the best advice we can give to him to experience dreaming is to tell him/her to sleep. Then he will ‘know’ that dreaming exist and not ‘believe’, since he has experienced it himself.
Look up the Heart Math Institute. The concept of coherence they suggest is likely to be more useful than looking at EEG. First of all I’m a former brain scientist that has worked with EEG and there are a LOT of variables that affect the end signal source, including how well each individual electrode is conducting the signal from the scalp itself. Which for anyone with thick hair is immediately an issue in that you are virtually assured that you’ll have differences across your electrodes. then there is the multiple mathematics that are used to massage the data into whatever it is the researchers are looking for - trust me data manipulation is a very real thing even though much of it happens unintentionally. Long story short EEG is not likely to be a useful tool for establishing how “true” or “in tune” or what level of consciousness someone is at.
Take binaural beats - you can induce whatever dominant brainwave pattern you want by applying slightly offset frequencies to each ear. Having used binaural beats for many years I can say for sure that the experience of being in a “theta” state from listening to binaural beats is absolutely not the same experience as a theta state from zen meditation. So just from that alone - regardless of all the other issues with EEG - makes me say that EEG is NOT a useful tool for determining someone’s level of consciousness on a scale like the law of one lays out.
However looking at the coherence of heart rate variability is actually probably a very good approximation of how well someone is reaching higher states or not. Also as a former brain scientist I am absolutely certain the brain is not the center of our consciousness. The science shows that our entire body is likely contributing to our actual experience of having a mind. We know for example emotions are neurochemical signatures - and that those neurochemicals are everywhere in our bodies not just in our brains.
It’s kind of odd to look at people debating things that science has already established fairly certainly. The concept of emotions for example - science that shows emotions are expressed in our whole body not just our brain is from the late 70’s and yet somehow it’s still not common knowledge.
Nope, just two… two “higher selves.” Not a quadrillion or one. Two.
If time isn’t linear, then the concept of “future” would not exist, and there would only be “now.” If there is only “now,” then wouldn’t you just be your higher self projecting a portion of that “self” into this “illusion” character?
What makes you believe this? Curious to your reasons for this statement. If we are all infinite in nature, then wouldn’t be a number like “billions” or “quadrillions” be irrelevant? We are infinite. That’s it.
All the links you shared were from the lawofonesociety.com. I can’t find much information on who runs that site, except that it’s someone out of the UK…
But basically you are saying, that you get your information from people who get their information from l/l, ”interpreted” (based on the specific highlighting or underlining of certain text to create a specific emphasis) and further “distorted” through a secondary perspective.
I think the above statement speaks for itself.
Even the channellings say it’s rather impossible to determine who is “service to self” based on outward appearances and actions.
Q’uo - September 3, 2017
By contrast, an entity who is approaching harvestable quality on the negative path typically will not be noticed as one who is extraordinarily negative; [he or she] will most generally be taken as one who is, in fact, positive, because it is a characteristic of this path that the measure of success is indexed to the ability to control, to manipulate, to dominate others, and the surest way to queer the pitch , 3 shall we say, in that enterprise is to let the cat out of the bag 4 with regard to who you really are. It is very much to your advantage if you can generate a public persona that seems positive so that those whose energies you wish to commandeer to your own will gladly serve you, thinking that they are, in fact, serving one of a positive polarity.
So, according to their own “channelled” sources, “negative” entities are extremely crafty and you would not be able to tell who they were, because they would appear to be “service to self” in their nature.
Okay…
So by your own “definition,” those “possessed” and needing an “exorcism” are similar to what one would go though to do “trance channeling,” like the Ra contact?
Strange… the audio session we listened to last night from Session 37 reminded me of TV shows/movies where one was possessed. Just the tone and vibration from the vocal cords seems like the sound was being copied from a source.
Let me explain using a related example:
The sounds produced during “trance” channeling and “demonic possession” (as you stated are technically similar) have a very familiar sound quality to them that you can pick up if you “listen” closely enough.
It reminds one of how AI builds images, like with Midjourney. A Reddit video we watched last year showed how they put together images in layers, based on what our “society” has deemed a “typical” image for a word of concept.
Do they also do this with sound? I imagine so…
The Linkin Park song, Fighting Myself, was recently released. I noticed immediately that something was “off” about the whole song. It turns out, they used “layers” of vocals of Chester (if you aren’t a Linkin Park fan, then you’d know that Chester, their lead singer, committed suicide in 2017) in order to “create” live vocals.
The over-processing of the vocals completely strips the energy from them, making them “feel” artificial. Energy is the reason why songs can be so healing. Basically, any good energy reader can tell something is off about it. But most aren’t good at reading energy or even tone (which essentially is just energy). So how would one use discernment in a situation like that? How do you know what you are listening to is authentic? With the explosion of AI technology in the recent years, how do we know how long this has been going on “behind the scenes?”
Dreaming is a very personal process. It usually relates to your own personal journey. Your “higher selves” would never do anything that wasn’t for your greatest good. Can you say the same for everyone else?
How many times have you seen people freeze in place when someone else was in distress? For me, it’s almost a daily occurrence. Can you count on them to have your best interests at heart when it really matters?
Rarely do people take responsibly for their actions. More often than not, you hear excuses. This society has an infinite amount of excuses which they disguise as “reasoning.” And if you disagree, you are ostracized. So yes, EEGs and other technology should be considered when the information being given can be completely damaging to you and your life.
Who programmed the Robot to experience sleep? If AI is created by man, then a man with biases, conditioning, emotions, etc. etc. would use those to program the Robot to “experience” sleep. Then the Robot would have to interpret that “experience”… and who programs the robot with the ability to do that, and where do THEY get their data?
The part where we are being told to trust someone’s biases completely without any sort of verification.
For a society obsessed with technology, it’s a strange phenomenon that no one wants to use that technology to back up their claims in the spiritual community. So from that line of thinking, does that mean “4th density” means the eradication of technology?
Maybe we’ll all be so enlightened that we will just erase technology completely?
Considering a roommate in the past once tried to use the dishwasher to wash one dish (yes, running a full cycle for one large container) rather than hand washing it, I don’t think technology is going anywhere anytime soon. So what is the harm in pairing spirituality with scientific research that can at least be somewhat verified, rather than just taking it on blind faith that everyone is “a-ok.”
Principles of the Physiological Coherence Model
The psychophysiological model of coherence is based on the following five principles, which will be described in turn:
1 . There is a bi-directional system whereby the brain
sends information to the body through efferent neural networks, and the body communicates with brain centres via sympathetic and vagal afferent inputs to the thalamus, amygdala, and other sub-cortical structures .
2 . State-specific emotions are reflected in the patterns of the heart’s rhythms, independent of changes in the amount of HRV and heart rate .
3 . Through this bi-directional communication network, patterns of the heart’s rhythm can significantly influence cognitive performance, self-regulatory capacity, and social connectedness .
4 . Resetting emotional and behavioural patterns are facilitated by afferent input from the body, and occurs through positive reinforcement and neuroplasticity of neural networks .
5 . Self-induced positive emotions can shift psychophysiological systems into a more globally coherent and harmonious order associated with improved self-regulation, performance, and overall health and well-being.
Several years ago Institute of Noetic Sciences senior scientist Dr. Dean Radin visited HeartMath’s research lab and shared the results of a study he conducted. In it, study participants’ autonomic nervous systems responded in advance of seeing randomly selected pictures intended to elicit a negative or calming emotional response. HeartMath wanted to replicate and expand the study.
HMI researchers added other protocols to its study, including measures of participants’ brain waves (EEG), their heart’s electrical activity (ECG) and their heart rate variability (HRV).
Twenty-six adults experienced in using HeartMath techniques and who could sustain a heart-coherent state completed two rounds of study protocols approximately two weeks apart. Half of the participants completed the protocols after they intentionally achieved a heart-coherent state for 10 minutes. The other half completed the same procedures without first achieving heart coherence. Then they reversed the process for the second round of monitoring, with the first group not becoming heart-coherent before completing the protocols and the second group becoming heart-coherent before. The point was to test whether heart coherence affected the results of the experiment.
Participants were told the study’s purpose was to test stress reactions and were unaware of its actual purpose. (This practice meets institutional-review-board standards.) Each participant sat at a computer and was instructed to click a mouse when ready to begin.
The screen stayed blank for six seconds. The participant’s physiological data was recorded by a special software program, and then, one by one, a series of 45 pictures was displayed on the screen. Each picture, displayed for 3 seconds, evoked either a strong emotional reaction or a calm state. After each picture, the screen went blank for 10 seconds. Participants repeated this process for all 45 pictures, 30 of which were known to evoke a calm response and 15 a strong emotional response.
The results were fascinating, showing that both the participants’ heart and brain appeared to indicate receiving and responding to information about the emotional quality of the pictures before the computer randomly selected them, as if they were responding to a future event. Specifically, these responses occurred, on average 4.8 seconds before the computer randomly selected pictures.
Even more profound, perhaps, was data showing the heart received information before the brain. “It is first registered from the heart,” Rollin McCraty Ph.D. explained, “then up to the brain (emotional and pre-frontal cortex), where we can logically relate what we are intuiting, then finally down to the gut (or where something stirs).”
The point is, there are endless studies being done in a variety of different ways, yet no one is focusing on applying any of these techniques, especially since technology has exploded to “unreal” capabilities in the last 5 years alone. Why is there no interest in attempting to “prove or disapprove” potentially dangerous information? Why is there no interest in protecting the mental health of those already suffering?
Science is always updating. Think about the images from the JWST vs the Hubble telescope as an example. What they are learning from this more advanced technology is forever changing science and technology and “perspective/views” on the universe. You don’t go, “well this definition works for me” and just ignore any new “information” provided to you.
New information should make you want to explore further instead of just accepting “old” information. Isn’t that the technological equivalent to working on your spiritual path, constantly integrating “new” information into your current journey? Or does everyone just adopt a “philosophy” or “theology” or “channelled work” and accept it as infallible?
hey there bigTOE! thank you for the heart math institute directory. It is a resourceful site for self-help and interesting perspectives to explore about “heart” intelligence.
and it is wonderful to have an expert’s insight! just to clarify, you said “brain scientist,” as referring to “neuroscientist?”
I saw that you mentioned on your profile as having a phd in complex systems and brain sciences and ran a MRI lab.
If you don’t mind talking a little more about your background, I am very intrigued.
There are different branches within neuroscience and a generic perspective could often overlook specificity within certain experiment, or dismissing findings that are not relatable to the topic at hand.
I have heard of this when I was learning about TBI (traumatic brain injuries) in veterans who has combat experiences, and it does poses an issue for getting accurate readings.
But that is almost a decade old problem and have been resolved with the advancement in technology. So I would say that it is not an “issue” for getting accurate readings at this time.
In this article, which was posted in 2020, this solution has been widely adopted and there are even better solutions today.
“Electrodes don’t always sit snugly on scalps of people with curly, coarse hair that’s loose (left), making it difficult for electroencephalograms to read brain activity. Both braiding (middle) and using newly designed electrodes that clip underneath those braids (right) can improve the electrical signal, researchers report.”
Could you elaborate more on this observation?
While it is true that EEG alone may not be a comprehensive tool for determining someone’s level of consciousness or their alignment with reality, it is still a valuable tool in certain contexts. It can measure brain activity in real-time, which can be useful in monitoring the brain’s response to certain stimulis (Meditative state, or “channeling”)
Additionally, EEG can provide information about a person’s level of arousal or alertness, which may be indicative of their overall level of consciousness. While it is not a definitive measure of consciousness, itcan be an “additional” useful tool in combination with other assessments, such as behavioral observations or clinical evaluations. (Like what Funky was saying about having a multifaced approach to conduct “research”)
Also, from this scholar article in 2009. It is well known that eeg and similar methods has been proven to be useful in determining the “level of consciousness” someone is in.
“In this chapter, using sleep as a model of unconsciousness, we show that TMS/hd-EEG can detect clear-cut changes in the ability of the thalamocortical system to integrate information when the level of consciousness fluctuates across the sleep–wake cycle.”
It is also true that binaural beats can be used to induce different brainwave patterns, but it is not accurate to suggest that EEG is not a useful tool for determining someone’s level of consciousness. EEG measures the electrical activity of the brain and provides information about the underlying neural processes that give rise to consciousness. It can be used to detect changes in brain activity associated with different states of consciousness, such as wakefulness, sleep, and meditation.
You actually brought up a very good physical marker for determining a false-positive.
If the channelers were listening to binaural beats to emulate a synthetic frequency then that is understandable and it would skewed an authentic detection from eeg. But I don’t think they are listening to binaural beats in these channeling sessions. (Actually, their current “research” method isn’t fully transparent, or shown consistently whatsoever.)
The bottom line of the discussion is to authenticate
If electro-frequency produced from different state of consciousness are markers of someone’s meditative state (which has been proven scientifically) Then having this as “part” of a measurement for a channeler’s “transmission” could help with identifying the genuine integrity of the state that the channeler is in.
for example, let say that to “channel.” One should be attuned to the Gamma frequency, as it is the highest attainable level of meditative state. (Even shown in the video that Quid shared, about the monk.)
If a channeler isn’t in that state or “correct” frequency, and start spouting messages and stuff.
It would be obvious that this person is being “creative.”
We can start collecting Jim’s frequency (when he is channeling) as a “baseline” since he is the venerable one. In comparison with other channelers, we can see where discrepancies or distortions when they do their “switches.”
This could help determining a unique signatures from these E.T. that is coming through. e.g. Or even determining the level of “clarity/quality” of the channelers.
e.g. If Jim’s Qu’o is going at a Gama level but when switched to Austin, it dipped to Theta or something else. Then the line-of-communication isn’t at 100%
(readers can then use this for their own discernment while the group play musical chair with their channeling.)
Regarding the statement that the brain is not the center of consciousness, it is true that our entire body is involved in the experience of consciousness, including the expression of emotions. Emotions involve complex interactions between various brain regions, as well as the release of neurochemicals throughout the body. However, the brain plays a central role in the generation and integration of conscious experience. While other bodily processes may contribute to the experience of consciousness, the brain is the primary site of conscious processing.
It is important to note that scientific knowledge is always evolving, and our understanding of complex phenomena such as consciousness continues to develop over time. While some aspects of consciousness may be well-established, there is always more to learn and discover. Therefore, it is important to approach scientific debates with an open mind and a willingness to consider new evidence and perspectives.
bigToeofLove, I do agree with the expert insight and comment about eeg, but I also see that your perception based on one’s education and personal experiences may have also set a narrow limitation on things that aren’t concrete.
The irony and contradicting things about spiritual channeling is that this group considered it as “research”
based solely on their founder’s (Don Elkins) original effort.
But at this time, there are no foundational structure that remotely define any methods of “research.”
Other than “he said, she said.”
Also under the information given by the “research” itself. The channeled materials and constant disclaimer point towards the possibility of “mixed” messages being imbued in ANY spiritual messages/teachings.
I feel it is natural for others to explore authenticity if the source of the information can only provide personal subjective validity.
Another interesting point, how would you approach the measurement of ones “states” with the above statement? If the person has CHF or cardiac illnesses, then does that approximate one’s “higher state?”
I am surprise you found the research experiments from HMI that indicated their own use of EEG, ECG, and HRV.
It is definitely not wise to dismiss any methods or using them separately in any research, and the HMI experiment you shared definitely gave me more confidence in their work, because it seems like they are rather inclusive in their study rather than being dismissive or hellbent in specific studies/research.
Thanks for doing the legwork in digging through that! It’s wonderful to see there are “truth” in unbiased and united effort.
On the other hand,
I have to agree with what you have said about “blind=faith” and your perspective about “beliefs.”
“beliefs” shaped the old world, and gave power to those who should not have them. It in turns created much suffering and strife for the people on this planet.
It is a primal instinct for creatures to define it’s own existence based on the relative and subjective information learned. Although it is nice on the surface, it is not harmonic at all internally.
So when this belief is challenged, then it is almost seen as a personal attack to the entity’s own existence.
Hence, people are willing to murder and destroy in the name of their “blind-faith.”
Intelligent-infinity helped Einstein and Tesla reached their scientific models and theories, which was for the sake of betterment of mankind. It is a humbling reminder that non of them were “preachers” or “priests”
The scientific knowledge of our world was discovered and understood with the definitive nature of creation itself. You cannot argue that 1 isn’t 1. And 1+2 isn’t 3… No matter how spiritual or mad you are.
Why does scammer or charlatan relies on illusion? on unprovable truths or facts, or subjective beliefs? because it gives them rooms to make excuses for fallacy. Rooms for manipulation to sway subjective opinions into “truth” that creates “exclusivity.”
If you just take a step back… You see that those who are at the “top” in any settings enjoys watching those who are at the bottom quarreling at each others,
while they spectate from their high places, and enjoying the finer amenities contributed by their patrons.
Kings never fight their own wars, Popes will never hang himself on the cross, and Influencers will never BE their influence.
The new world is truly a harsh place for bs to linger, and cohesive nexus for open-inclusive information to be shared and peer-reviewed.
The other big irony in this whole thing is that…
As “loving” and “uniting” theology/spiritualism have forever touted on this planet. It has always been a personal subjective matter. Not only that It divided people, created discourse, and conflicts. It fan the flame of bellicosity between people.
Look at the wake that was left behind by any spiritual teachings or religious doctrine.
It directly ties into the choice and action of any negative individual and can be shaped to their own intention.
While science doesn’t blink at the good or evil of men, nor does it judge men. It allows both polarities to freely use it’s power.
Scientific community, and not the (egoistic deGrasse Tyson type/ The look at me! and my credentials! type) has always been naturally uniting, and cohesive.
(You share your findings and research around the globe no matter your background, culture, or beliefs)
While the division of spiritual/theological beliefs only reach as far as one’s limitation in the tolerance for the “different beliefs” of another person.
I am waiting for a subset to come out later with the “Law of two” LOL
a cosmic jest that will be, or perhaps not,
Back on topic though,
Why are we running away from ANY attempts to bring light to the effort of seeking?
I understand that compartmentalized method isn’t the best, but it shouldn’t warrant dismissal altogether.
( I am agreeing with you that we should definitely look at everything beyond their face values)
I hope this helps for those with discerning minds and untainted intuition.
I’d begin with this question - Why assume in fact that there would necessarily be any corresponding measurable change in anatomy or physiology markers of someone channeling vs. someone just speaking a bunch of nonsense? Besides that fact I think EEG is not a useful measurement I’m really asking why assume that any measurement would be useful? But for the sake of it let’s say there is some measurement we can make. Here’s what I’d say about that.
I personally believe the concept of wuji->Taichi->yin/yang is an accurate reflection of the dynamics that govern the process of the creation of reality as we experience it. That’s exactly the same concept as: quantum foam ->energy->position/momentum. So long story short I believe the universe is balanced and that’s a fundamentally true law. So if we’re asking is someone speaking truth we can ask are they in balance - because the truth of the nature of reality is balance.
So applying the concept of balance to our human bodies - very broadly and oversimplified we can say sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system activity is a good and accurate approximation of the balance of yin and yang. So when the sympathetic and parasympathetic are in perfect balance you can measure that as the coherence of the heart rate variability if I’m understanding it correctly. So at least we could measure whether the person was in balance.
I for one would be more inclined to consider whatever is coming out of the mouth of someone in a very balanced state versus what is coming out of the mouth of someone who is not.
Your higher self/selves has many identities, millions, billions or perhaps quadrillions.
As he/she/they have experienced many many incarnations.
Your current identity is just one of it.
6th density entity is a social memory complex, Ra for example is a social memory complex of 6 million entities. Thus it’s quite confusing, grammar-wise, on how to properly refer to Ra, he? she? it? them?
100% correct.
Using metaphor of reading a novel, past, future is like a page in the book. We named page which is lesser than the page that we’re currently focusing on as past and page which is greater as future.
Plus there are many timelines… many story lines…
The identity labeled as Higher self is still finite… 6th density.
It’s still has ego which bordered the identity between inside and outside.
Once that ego has been broken then you are everyone and everything thus infinite and border less.
Such state of consciousness is labeled as 8th density in Ra/Quo depiction.
Exactly… that’s why it’s better to focus on WHAT STS and STO.
Yes STS entities usually mixed their negative thought form along with positive thought form.
Thus as mentioned above it’s better to focus on WHAT rather than WHO.
Focus on each individual message rather than who said it.
A simple example, a quote that’s often being mentioned by Xtians.
Allegedly Jesus said: “No one comes to the Father except through me”
That’s definitely an STS message as it is ego centric and based on the conception of separation.
And many other messages in Old Testament regarding “chosen people”.
I did not mentioned that they need ‘exorcism’. That’s your own addition.
Yes technically ‘trance channeling’ and ‘possession’ are similar, temporarily controlling the physical layer of 3rd density entities by 4th, 5th / 6th entities. Whatever polarities they are.
Correct and so does enlightenment and spiritual experience.
Where did I say that?
Mind you I NEVER said that.
You should not trust / believe any thought form from any entities.
Only take those that resonate with you and in accordance to your own experience.
Quo always begin his/their message with a disclaimer.
"As always, however, we would preface our remarks by requesting that each of you who listens to or reads these words use your native discernment and discrimination, taking those ideas that appeal to you and working with them as you wish and leaving the rest behind. "
If there’s an entity who told you that you must BELIEVE or something bad will happened to you… (which is common to be found in religion or cult teachings) then such thought form / message is definitely STS oriented.
STO will always respect free will of entities, and their objective is to strengthen the discernment and not trying to conquer others.
I think this question is what drove Don to approach channeling in the manner he did.
it’s really the foundation that eventually getting you to be exposed to the materials, and us talking on here.
Because there are very real consequences that the material has on people’s psychological behavior.
On the surface, it may seem benign and should just be brushed off as spiritual-texts.
Funky shared about those who uses these materials to “guide” others under the acknowledgement and approval from Rock Creek.
People have committed suicide under the care of these “influencers” that used this materials to make money.
But the fact that people are gaining fames, making money, and also influencing others with their own interpretation of the materials. (Which was something the materials itself warned against)
It has very real effect on people.
And if you take it seriously, then why wouldn’t you want to measure and confirm that sts interception is not present in messages that suppose to “aid” mankind?
It does comes down to personal subjective viewpoint.
If this is something that served you and you don’t really care how it affect others, then there’s really no need to examine anything.
As it will be an exclusive haven and nirvana for only those who resonated with the materials and those who flocks with the organization.
It comes down to seeing if this is an inclusive message, or exclusive message.
If it is exclusive, then why boast about helping “everyone” and mankind. If it is for “everyone” then there should be consideration of “follow-up” and examination of what you “produced” and disseminated.
It is almost irresponsible and convenient for someone who is suppose to be “helping” and not doing due diligent, or care about the results of their intervention. (cigarettes boxes have warning labels on them, right?)
I am a licensed EMT and have learned about this in the past. The sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system controls the “fight or flight” response and prepare the body for strenuous activity or rest.
This is a survival mechanism for the human body.
And if compared to spiritual text of the Loo, then it probably would tie more close with the lower chakras that governs the physical needs rather than a complete overview of the heart(emotional) center going up to crown chakra.
Also the human bodies are widely inconsistent, male and female have different “balance,” ethnicity and race, culture, diet, and physical activities all carry greater varieties of differences to define what is balanced in a person.
But when we go towards neuroscience, or the “brain” and cognitive/behavioral function.
There is a much more apparent “baseline.” As in, if someone shot your dog. No matter where you are on this planet, or your body type, or “heart intelligence.” Your brain activity WILL have reaction to the event.
Your brain is the antennae and the first receptor of your external world.
Without your head, your body isn’t going to “react” to such event, it will just function as is just to “survive.”
by what measure? how well they can perform tai chi? they are Olympian status level fitness?
born with perfect health and cardiac function?
Balance is balance - that’s universal and it’s both simple and complex. It’s both unique and complex to an individual and simple and universal as a concept. The balance of yin and yang can be achieved in infinite ways that reflects the unique circumstances and situations of each individual souls journey. One’s ability to perform Taichi is one of only an infinite source of factors in whether one can find harmony in their own soul journey or not.
And if you look at any point in history, especially around more technologically advanced periods, there was always a great amount of destruction (Atlantis) that came with technological advances in relation to spiritual development. Asking them to be kept in balance is very understandable request.
And yet… here we are in the height of technological advancement… again… and the same patterns are repeating themselves in this society in regards to the power of said “beliefs” and the control they lord over others through intellectual manipulation of said “belief system or structure.”
Rinse. Repeat. Aren’t we getting tired of this game?
There has been some confusing reactions from people as of late… if anything they seem to be overly reactive to words that aren’t being given out with any sort of intention to cause an overreaction. It always make one wonder if you are on to something in regards to a subconscious reaction happening underneath the surface of these “explosive” reactions to their “beliefs” being challenged. Why now at this period in “time” would cause an increase in this? Maybe it was always there and we are just seeing it clearly now. Maybe a larger issue is being highlighted.
All I know is that if you spent over a year looking after your landlords property, (as a personal example) without any expectation of return (ie. you do it because you want to, because you care and you love and aren’t out to receive some “reward” for your efforts), and when you ask them to turn down a loud, violent movie screaming “f-you” through the ceiling so our child doesn’t wake up to sounds of “murder,” an appropriate response would be to apologize and turn it down, not make excuses and slam the door.
Basically, once challenged in any way, the behaviour makes its way to the surface in any kind of scenario.
Is anyone else getting bored with this kind of predictable reaction? We’d absolutely love it if in a situation like above, someone would respond with love and humility instead of anger and excuses. That would be a really nice surprise!
Being a “preacher” or “priest” seems to go hand and hand with governmental structures, arrogance and the need to accumulate power or control over the masses in one form or another. If one needs to define themselves at all, then they aren’t looking to be “equal” or “balanced” with anyone but themselves for themselves.
That is why a balance is important and the topic presented in threads like these should be more closely considered and integrated into spiritual practices. It is as simple as 1+2=3.
I’ve only ever seen that in TV Shows, like Game of Thrones. The king who’d rather be a warrior than a leader.
I always asked myself if anyone had that much honor…but then the real question always was, is why do they need to fight it out anyways? Why is that the only way to solve issues? Even with the current issues in the world today, I always thought, it’s 2023, why the f*ck are people still going to war? Wasn’t the spiritual movement supposed help people find a place of “oneness” and love within their own hearts? No? War instead? * sigh * Here we go again…
Touted, solicited, “whored out”… Its all the same bs. They prostitute out their message in any disgusting way they can in order to control, manipulate, divide and conquer. This story is old and tiring and needs to be re-written into something less awful and into some far more beautiful.
Pretty much every single extremely tragic thing that has happened on this planet is tied to this in one way or another… and yet no one makes efforts to prevent it. They stubbornly stick behind their archaic beliefs and are surprised when history repeats itself over and over again.
War is not exciting. It is beyond exhausting. Let it go people, put down your swords and walk away from the battle.
I’d rather be drowning in the ecstasy of emotional fulfillment and intimate connection and truly experiencing the beauty of existence, truly understanding what it’s like to experience this beautiful planet in a state of true bliss, unconditional love and unity, rather than spending one more boring day arguing over the nature of reality with people who refuse to budge behind their fortress of stubbornness and pride.
Especially with the way everyone seems to want to view it these days. There is no balance. Nothing ever changes. People studying these “theologies” are just firmly planted in place and unwilling to change, no matter what destruction it brings to the planet.
Two heads are better than one? I always preferred working intimately with one other rather than doing anything “alone.” Then again, I know I’ve never truly ever been alone. That is the most comforting feeling in the world.
Looks like we’re both down for the “law of two.”
Usually, those who right out refuse or dismiss any opportunity see things beyond their own limited or narrow perspective, is usually a strong indication that they feel there is some sort of power to be “lost” or used to “control” others. So, potentially “losing” their stronghold over those they feel are “beneath” them by losing their grip they have with this “information”.
There always seems to be a hierarchal structure in all of these “theologies, channelled works” and other bs that refuse to be challenged. Why is this the way it always goes?
If everyone is “One” why is hierarchal structures always included in every… single… one? Once again…
Aren’t we bored of this? Why not just include scientific methods with spirituality and make some changes, some real positive, good for all of mankind kind of changes? It seems like a simple solution. Yet arrogance and domination rules its ugly head in so many fields of study that it’s rather difficult to find those with a balanced perspective.
Thank you for sharing this, as I share the “identical” perspective as you do.
True, but if you are satisfy with your own balance and truth. Then that is good for you.
But what about others? who are swept up under the waves of influences from people or “entities” that claim to be here to “help?”
subjective information are always bounded by the dictating factor of an individual/groups.
When free, BALANCED, and universal information are there to truly help without personal agendas.
Don Elkins, and Tom Campbell are technical people that pursued for both you and I to even sit here and talk about “spiritual” topics.
Aren’t you grateful that they partake on their rigorous effort so you can further your journey rather than just doing tai chi?
Imagine all that wonderful information/materials are not given to you, and they tell you to go do tai chi.
Sure, you will get there in balancing, but that isn’t so much “service-to-others” to withhold or distort information to an extend that causes death.
Lastly, that is the gist of this discussion. There are information that can be harmful to others, and it has been warned in this spiritual-texts itself as well.
So why are we here talking like… “Oh everything is fine, we don’t need to look into anything.”
If I see you and hand you some kool-aid, you’re just going to drink it right??
At the same time, things that you are mentioning here and on the other threads (I just saw them recently)
Are “against the grain.” As in, you are saying things that most people on here don’t agree with, or seen as disruptive.
When I take a step back and look at how people are treating you on this forums.
I can see that if you come off as “nice” and “loving” then people will vibe with you, but if you are throwing a tantrum or calling people out, they will shy away and not give you “hearts” or attention.
Within the context of the Law of One, of love and understanding, and the philosophy being disseminated.
There is an irony here, a contradiction.
It is a bit disheartening to see that the community don’t interact with you more in compassionate ways, and that goes to even the top-levels of the organization.
I wonder if Carla was still around, what she would say to you, or if she would have interacted with you.
I imagine that she would,
Jesus didn’t hang out with the “perfect” and “good ones,” he wasn’t afraid to talk to everyone, even those who opposes his view.
But that kind of service isn’t what we see…
On the other note,
Even though our inquisitive curiosity is “similar,” I wouldn’t say it is “identical.”
nope, I am still for the Law of one, as it is the truth in my own subjective viewpoint, and also a well comparison with the external world as well.
the law of two is a “jest,”
Even with the personal philosophy or even the viewpoint I have on life, there are difference there.
I don’t think you should trust everything or even agree with everything I have said.
I humbly do know that I could be wrong, or is wrong without knowing. Ironically, that is why I seek and ask hard questions.
The other difference is that I don’t have any real issues with the organization or people here. I see them as “artists” and they are being creative in their own ways.
The controversial stuff that is in their history, or their current motives are really up to each person and their own discernment.
(I imagine that most people on here are responsible adults that can choose for themselves)
The only problem I have is that the “art pieces” has psychological and scientific influence on people, and I am curious about that.
That is why I chooses these topics of EEG and Benford’s curve.
Again though, these things are not to discredit or disprove.
I personally feel that you should attend their retreats, or get to know them personally. The people at Rock Creek.
If you are lucky, maybe you will even get to meet the famous James Allan McCarty.
They may be able to share with you the love and the light of the infinite creator.
Thanks for helping with the work and sharing the information you have found.
I greatly appreciate those contribution to the thread.
I resonate well with many of Tom Campbell’s statement.
I love his model of consciousness and I often uses his term “Consciousness Unit” to differentiate between Consciousness (Infinite/borderless) and Consciousness Unit (Finite / part of infinite consciousnes).
“Out of body experience” seems to be classified with the term:
“Remote Viewing” if it’s still within the same dimension as the physical body yet different space / time. (different location at the same time domain or different/same location at different time domain, usually towards the past)
“Astral Projection” if it’s different dimension / realm / universe. As universe is actually multi-layered thus the term “Multi-verse”.
CIA particularly has done extensive research on “Remote Viewing” and known to has applied it in a structured and repetitive method.
While Robert Monroe seems to be specializing more on studying and experimenting with Astral Projection.
At least you know.
… 
War is not exciting. It is beyond exhausting. Let it go people, put down your swords and walk away from the battle.
