My own take is that I really don’t think about money. Yes it’s part of the business but my only focus in on patient care. That’s my journey - I accept money because that’s just how it works but I don’t personally have any interest or attachment to the money. There is a part of me that still feels uncomfortable accepting money in the first place but practically speaking I am not at a level of personal development and/or awareness where I could reasonable continue to function without any money at all. There absolutely are people that can function without money - I’m not currently one of them. I make enough to pay my bills and at the end of the day that’s enough for me so I don’t give any more energy or attention to it.
The man that developed Reiki supposedly said the reason he charged people for his services was that he offered to do it for free people would think it was without value and therefore wouldn’t benefit from it because they had a mental block that it was a worthless endeavor. Just something to consider.
I think you misunderstand my use of the word “victim”.
I am specifically talking about people who don’t actually want to do any work in order to get results…whether that be difficult inner work that requires deep self-reflection and accepting responsibility - OR - external work to provide oneself with the basic necessities. The victims in the sense I am talking about are people who expect others to do the work for them and have no investment in their own life and taking responsibility for it.
In this idea of “victim” from what I perceive, would mean that we are ALL victims. We all have needs that are a matter of survival and there is nothing we can do about that. In our current society, we need money, or at least physical reciprocation of food, water, and shelter to survive.
We all have to do some kind of “work” in order to obtain these basic needs of life. Why does it matter if that type of work is being a manager at a corporate office or a spiritual worker?
Hopefully, no matter what it is we do for “work” we are doing it because we have a desire to be in that field because it provides us with a sense of fulfilling our purpose while in human form. Hopefully, we choose our “work” not as a means to an end, but because we truly feel like it is the path we are “supposed” to be on.
That is the way that I feel about my own spiritual “work” that I do.
I am not doing it as a means to an end. I am not trying to make millions off of what I do. I am doing it because I feel like I HAVE to. Not because some magical sky god is making me, but because it feels like it is part of my soul.
Would I do it even if I didn’t get paid? YES!
BUT, I wouldn’t be able to do it as often as I do it right now because I would have to have either a second job or find a full-time job in order to make the money I do to provide for our needs.
And not only that, why would I go find more “regular” work to do, when that doesn’t feel like it’s in alignment with my true self? Does the Law of One not talk specifically on many occasions about following your truest and highest alignment?
I don’t want to manipulate people. I don’t want to charge people at all. It would be wonderful to be able to FULLY trust the universe in every area of my life…and that is the goal. But I am not there yet.
I am making choices, even if they are small and slow, to go in that direction, navigating my path the best I can…balancing what I feel like is my soul’s calling with knowing I have basic needs and also being aware of limiting beliefs that I am working through while not using them as an excuse to do what I do.
If part of our evolution as spiritual beings is to learn to trust our inner guidance, then going to school or seeking employment to have a more solid foundation, as you put it, would be the exact opposite of trusting the universe.
If a person, such as myself, feels like the universe/higher self is leading me to do spiritual work in the way that I do, then I have to follow it in the way that feels like the best alignment.
Maybe for some people, the best alignment feels like having a full-time job and doing spiritual work on the side when they can.
For others, the best alignment feels like not having to work a full-time job and spending the majority of their time in their own spiritual practice, honing their skills, keeping their own mind/body/spirit in it’s top shape to be able to provide others with the highest services and products that they can as it flows out of them.
I set my coaching, live meditations and distance healing services to donation based. I don’t even have a suggested donation amount. This feels “right” to me to do. If people can afford it, great. If they can’t, great. Either way I will provide high quality services to them in these 3 areas.
As for the products I create, which come from my abilities, my skills, the courses I took to learn how to create said products, the money I spent on technology to produce these products, they have a set fee.
Why? Because this feels “right” to me. For now. Maybe it will change in the future.
Are we not just trying to do the best we can to follow our highest guidance? It’s not always going to be correct…so we adjust along the way and make choices that feel better than the last choice as we go.
But to go and get a regular job to make ends meet because of a logical thought process in order to have a “more solid foundation” is still looking at the world from a materialistic point of view. It means that a person is getting that job just to have money. Not because it feels right to them.
Isn’t the point of all of this to learn how to trust? In learning how to trust, we don’t usually get from A to Z in one step. We feel an inkling to go in a direction…so we follow that…then we get another inkling, so we follow that…we keep following the guidance and make adjustments along the way, not knowing exactly where we will end up.
But if we are honest and desiring the highest good for ourself and for serving others, we will get there.
This feels like an assumption that people go into spiritual work solely because it’s “easy”. Maybe some have that idea…but really, if you are going to provide quality, honest services and products as a spiritual worker I certainly wouldn’t call it easy.
This statement you made also feels a little bit like “spiritual workers aren’t as valuble as other lines of work”.
Doctors need a consistent flow of “victims”. So do therapists. So do lawyers. So do many other specialists. BUT that doesn’t mean that they are all preying on people who are physically or mentally sick or hoping that they have victims so they can make money.
If people didn’t need help in spiritual ways, then the call to those who could provide it wouldn’t be there. Just like if people didn’t need help with their physical bodies, there would be no need for doctors.
The whole idea behind all of what I have been saying is that in order to be of the highest good to ourselves and others, we must follow our inner guidance led by our higher self the best we can (knowing we are fallible). Judging that money gained by “regular” work is more honorable than gaining it from “spiritual” work feels like making things out to be right or wrong…which the Law of One doesn’t advocate for.
I get you. 
But really, nothing is “material”. We think it is physical, tangible stuff…but it’s just our perception. When you start dissecting cells and particles, nothing is there. It’s all just energy slowed down to certain vibrations/frequencies so that to our senses, they appear solid.
We are ALL just workers of energy. Yes, doctors too. The placebo effect plays a nice role here. The issue is that we separate what we see as solid from what we see as “thin air” as you said.
Every single person is able to access their higher self for their own spiritual needs and guidance. Every single person is able to access their higher self for physical healing, mental healing and the manifestation of basic needs too. All of this out of thin air. Essentially, spiritual workers, doctors, therapists…none of us are “needed”.
If we all realized exactly who and what we actually are, we wouldn’t need any external help at all.
But, because we all have limiting beliefs and live in a plane of reality where there are distortions, as RA has put it, we can use these tools such as doctors, therapists and spiritual workers in order to help us self-realize.
Just like some doctors and therapists are more skilled despite taking the same training, some spiritual workers are more skilled as well.
Teaching clients to read/heal so they can do it is wonderful idea of exchange and there are many I know who do this practice! I am a co-founder in a collaborative and we practice this to some degree.
But it doesn’t always work because if a person is not needing healing/reading but instead needs money for rent or food to eat and the “client” does not have that to give, the practitioner is out of luck.
This is what I am saying: this is far from an ideal world. Right now, it revolves around money. And I don’t like it any more than you do. I wish it were different…and I have a feeling it is changing…slowy…but still changing.
Money is literally an exchange of energy. I think I said that before. If a person doesn’t feel like my products are worth what I charge, they do not have to buy them. If they are dedicated to their own spiritual path, they can “pull it out of thin air” since we all have access to the quantum field. Or, they can find someone else that charges less or does it for free.
I am not a person who uses marketing techniques to manipulate people into buying my products. I create something. I let people know it is there. And done. No fancy wording to try and get them to spend their money. No tactics to lure anyone in. No unsubstantiated claims.
I really appreciate this conversation.
I do think though, that we would all do well to be introspective about the idea that certain ways of making money are more worthy than others.
My personal opinion is that we should all just do our best in following our inner guidance that allows for the highest alignment with our higher self
Question to ask yourself: Why would asking money for anything cause your frequency to be lower?
Perhaps its not about the setting of prices that causes issues, but the expectation we put on it. We get attached to the outcome instead of saying, “This feels like the right price to set. I am going to go with this and let go of the expectation of having the outcome that I think I should have.”
When I decided to change my services to donation based, I asked myself “Does it feel better to set a suggested donation price or to just say whatever you feel my services are valued at?” instead of basing it off of which one felt more “wrong”. Does that make sense?
If we are learning to trust Source/Creator/Universe, we do it with incremental choices, not with one huge step that may cause us to wobble in our faith. That’s the way it works for me at least.
For me, an incremental choice was to see which thing felt better, suggested donation, or free will donation of perceived value. I went with the latter because it felt better.
In my opinion, the goal isn’t necessarily to get money out of the equation, though that would be wonderful! It is about learning to follow our next step on the path of least resistance. The next best-aligning choice we can make.
Right now, for me, even though 3 of my services are by donation, my products are not. It feels like the most aligned choice to set a specific price for most of my products.
Is this because of some limiting, lack-based beliefs influencing my feelings of alignment? Possibly. But I am not looking out ahead 6 months from now or years from now. I am just feeling my way through each present moment, using discernment and my guidance to be as aligned with my higher self as I can be.
I don’t think that it is always possible for the higher self to get us from A to Z in a single step…maybe because of limiting beliefs, maybe because of circumstances or other things.
But if it is our desire to get to Z, which in our case would be to not feel the need to charge money for anything we do and completely trust the Universe to bring us what we need, then we have to allow for steps B thru Y as we shed limiting beliefs and thought patterns.
I think sometimes we let ourselves feel “bad” or “evil” or “wrong” when we realize we have limiting beliefs or egoic processes still intact. But it is the judgment that “spiritual workers shouldn’t do this, that or the other thing” that actually causes us to feel bad.
We then also have a limiting belief that it’s “wrong” to charge for spiritual services or products. Any belief that makes us feel like we can’t be our easy, free-flowing self is something to be evaluated.
I know you were responding to Jayce…but I wanted to chime in.
Your thoughts above are exactly what I was trying to get at, and something I am still learning.
Even labeling this thing “spiritual” and that thing “not spiritual” creates a separation. And us versus them.
At a foundational level, there is no physical matter. When a scientist dissects a cell, down to particles and nanoparticles, it all falls apart. There is no physical matter. Only the appearance of it. It is all energy.
Everything we do, in my opinion, is spiritual because we are spiritual beings. A cashier at the gas station is spiritual. A farmer is spiritual. A dentist is spiritual. We are all having a human experience to explore ourselves, to evolve, to learn, to understand…we are all just playing the roles we chose to play…mine just happens to be “spiritual worker” if we need a label…which I don’t like labels…but for the sake of making conversation easy…
That’s why I don’t see money as a lesser exchange of energy.
I see a future earth where money is not a “thing”…doctors, therapists, farmers, repair people, spiritual workers…we all provide our services for free because we don’t need a monetary system in order for a community of people to fill each other’s needs.
Until we are there, it can be challenging to navigate our path when we know what is possible. But that is part of our experience, right? We knew that it would be challenging, we knew that we would have to operate within a system that we do not prefer. But we came anyway, knowing that we could be just little small steps on this evolutionary journey and amazing experience!
Absolutely.
There is a great difference between being a spiritual worker for the love of money, thinking that you will be able to get rich off of other people’s struggle…versus being a spiritual worker because it feels like the best expression of your true self and being able to receive money if that feels like the right path.
I can see this to a certain extent, only because I see what future is possible for all of us…and I certainly dont’ have it all figured out…but I wonder…what if we are the people who money is an obstacle for?
If I feel called to provide my spiritual services and products full-time, but I cannot provide them because I need to get a job in order to survive, then I am still removing my services from those who want it because I don’t have the time or energy to dedicate to my spiritual work now that I have to have a “regular” job to provide for myself.
I don’t expect farmers to give me food for free because I need it. I know that farmers work their butts off in order to make a living and I want to pay them for what they do. I don’t see spiritual workers any differently.
I can’t speak for any other spiritual worker, but as for myself, my daily life is dedicated to being a more pure channel for all of my services and products. This means I spend time meditating, self-reflecting, and getting prepared mentally and physically, and emotionally for my clients and customers. It also means buying expensive technology to create my artistic and creative spiritual products and learning how to use the tech so I can provide them with the best experience possible. That takes a lot of work whether people want to believe it or not. Just because I am not plowing up the fields or planting seeds doesn’t mean I am not using energy to do my work.
I agree with money being neutral.
I am learning the balance/relationship with money as well. And it does feel “old world” to me to. I have always rejected the idea of being rich or having financial abundance…which is probably why I am in the state I am in with not having that much. I always used to see the exchange of money as “evil” or wrong somehow and that I couldn’t be a spiritual person if I accepted money for my spiritual type services.
I think if we don’t lose ourselves, as you said, in the pursuit of money, then all is well.
Perhaps part of our learning is to not judge the current monetary system as “bad”. Because in doing that, we separate ourselves from it/them.
If we are wanting to realize more unity, harmony and oneness, labeling something as bad in a seperation mentality is doing the opposite of what we are actually wanting.
Rather than rejecting what is, I am learning how to work WITH it to the best of my understanding without letting it trap me into greed and fear-based thinking.
This is very much along my way of thinking and the way I conduct my business as well.
11.28 Questioner: Would this freeing from darkness be commensurate with the Law of One or does this have any real product?
Ra: I am Ra. The product of such a freeing would create two experiences.
Firstly, the experience of no need to find the necessary emolument for payment, in your money, for energy.
Secondly, the leisure afforded, thereby exemplifying the possibility and enhancing the probability of the freedom to then search the self for the beginning of seeking the Law of One.
Few there are working physically from daybreak to darkness, as you name them, upon your plane who can contemplate the Law of One in a conscious fashion.
The model that I use when I serve other-selves is that I don’t care about how much money they have, nor do I have a price tag.
I first take care of the request for help, or what is needed. Then if the other-selves felt that they want to give back something in return, then it is up to them.
They set the price, because this allows them to freely make their own judgement on how helpful the service was. If they didn’t feel like it helped, or a little, or a lot, then they can make the call on how much to give.
But before then, I have already insisted to save it for someone on the street, the next person that is struggling.
After all that, and they still insist on the donation, then I will accept.
This is not a good business model, I won’t be rich doing this, nor can I support myself.
There are no “clients,” and a lot of folks will assume the service is free. (Which is true, and it is fine with me)
But again, this is my karma, and my choices on how to use my abilities.
You see,
We gave money a lot of “power” in this world. Even if we want to say it is “neutral.”
It isn’t, because in the end, it is essentially a tool that are often used negatively, or with ignorance.
Still though, I don’t disagree with charging or turning spiritual service into a career or a job.
I feel that no matter what, all experiences are there for us to go through.
Both paths carry their own karmas. Mine will, and does… And so will yours.
While it is true that medical and mental health professionals are not always held accountable for the harm they cause, the difference is that they are subject to regulation and oversight that is designed to protect patients and hold professionals accountable. While mistakes can happen in any field, the lack of accountability and regulation in the spiritual field means that there is often no recourse for individuals who have been harmed by spiritual teachers or healers.
Regarding the issue of suing someone for traumatization caused by a movie, it is unlikely that such a case would be successful as it would be difficult to prove that the movie was the sole cause of the trauma. However, it is important to note that the entertainment industry is subject to a variety of ethical and legal standards, such as age restrictions and content warnings, that are designed to protect viewers. Similarly, the lack of ethical laws and standards in the spiritual field leaves vulnerable individuals open to potential harm with no recourse for accountability.
That is absolutely true, and to couple with the statement above.
When you are talking about things being “free” or you putting in thousands of dollars etc. etc.
Imagine if there was only you on the planet. When we are doing things for ourselves, the idea of “free” or “how much” goes out the window.
I understand,
In this world, if someone has power over your basic necessity, you are essentially not “free.”
Whether if it is the “system” economically, socially, or culturally.
So, first you must free yourself, and become self reliance.
In todays technologies and ease-of-access to information and knowledge. One can become full self-sufficient if they dedicate a bit of their time to learn.
Most of us don’t, we want conveniency, and ultimately that is what shackled us to money and the existing system.
Rob Greenfield, this gentle soul is helping us see this and doing his best to free us from the “dread” that you have mentioned living in this physical world.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rob+greenfield
Check him out, and perhaps it can help you with some ideas on your journey.
This statement is a bit… “arm-twisting.”
Making money from spiritual work isn’t a “do, or die” situation. Nor does it raise one’s sense of importance of the service being given.
The world isn’t going to burn if you can’t do it at all. Nor will you be out of “options” to make a living.
This is purely a personal choice on how you want to support your lifestyle and make money.
I don’t think framing spiritual services/business in that fashion is wise, or focused on service-to-others.
That is just personal opinion, I am not saying it is service-to-self either. It just that we all know the “spiritual service” industry is lucrative and you can make a lot of money + own boss + own rules etc. etc.
As much as the “beliefs” that people will “care” more if they pay for something…
Why wouldn’t someone choose this job over a 9-5? Or schooling and stress from conventional occupation?
Opposite actually, I am trying to say that internal work shouldn’t be placed with materialistic values.
Which is my whole discussion so far, in short, I have been saying that I personally don’t feel it is right to place money on spiritual work.
The difference is the material findings in a doctor/therapists credential has physical consistency.
Meaning it is peer review, qualitative, quantitative research effort to produce/reproduce medical findings. Psychologically or Physically.
Our minds are bound to change over time, regardless of external influences. Therapy might not have worked for you, this could be many reasons. “Withholding” during sessions, inter-related traumas at younger age that produce negative experiences with authority figures (doctors, police, therapists, etc.)
The list goes on. But it doesn’t mean AA counseling and suicide prevention clinics doesn’t work, or hasn’t help countless souls.
These are things that has been documented and painstakingly recorded in the field of medicine.
When compared with the spiritual service/Industry, it is extremely inconsistent, nor practical with real life.
You don’t see shamans running psychiatric hospitals or performing complex surgeries on a daily basis.
Nor do you see psychics or “healers” standing in for 12+ hours shift when called by county sheriff task force for barricaded/suicide/domestic violence incidents.
We might not understand as much as “Ra” or our aliens friends, but we have been studying our physical vessel for a long time, and do know enough about it for procedures/policies in placed to prevent negative outcome.
When you get in your car, do you put on your seat belt? or start smudging?
Do they all go to the hospital when they can’t “spiritual” their way out of their predicament?
That’s another thing with legitimate medical field when compared with metaphysical services.
The scientific/medicine field builds on top of each others, all the way towards the cessation of life.
While the metaphysical services often has no true understanding on how a human body works other than pseudo unverifiable sources, and/or very basic understanding of healthcare.
If your chest starts hurting, shortness of breath, numbness down your left arm, blurry vision…
Who are you going to call? 911?
Or a reiki master?
I can’t beat on this horse anymore, but I hope you get my point.
I do understand the “good” and “evil” that exists in the generalized perspective you gave.
But in reality, it is much easier for you to hold a “surgeon” responsible than a “reiki master.”
You are correct that the professional occupations you listed aren’t “perfect,” but they have resources to at least enforce some accountability. This is nonexistent in the metaphysical service industry.
I am not sure which code of ethics or country this kind of practice is being done. But this is a very shrewd and complete false assumption of any professional medical field.
Also, I don’t know what you mean by “saying it is so.” If you have diabetes, you have diabetes. If you have stage 4 cancer, you have stage 4 cancer…
Now if you have schizophrenia, or some kind of mental health issues, of course it is harder for professional to tell you that you have them. (Although some does recognize this after extensive therapy/treatments)
This is the NASW (national association of social workers) code of ethics.
I am in this field, and we NEVER give our clients “ultimatums,” we meet those we help where they are at.
https://www.socialworkers.org/About/Ethics/Code-of-Ethics/Code-of-Ethics-English
I think “entertainment” is easier to disclaim. But again, these are two completely different things.
No one is going to stand in front of a judge and blame a “psychic” for their divorce, illness, or financial loss.
Unless the psychic was giving direct advices, or coercion was found. Even then… It is sketchy water.
Let say someone come to you and pay you to heal their headache, and none of the things you did worked.
Then they later on finds out that they have a tumor.
They could turn around and try to blame you, but luckily, that isn’t going to fly in court.
At the end of the day…
And I’ll be transparent with this…
The karmic debt from one partaking in the act of healing is not “simple” or “hobby.”
bf/gf, marriages, heartbreaks, dramas, horoscope, etc. etc.
Sure… It is fun and game, you can have a chat with a friend, or a therapist, or a psychic.
In this category, it is borderline “entertainment,” no harm, no foul as “entertainers.”
But when it comes to known medical issues and related things… I am not too keen on providing “services” and say that you/we are “healers.”
If homie keel over and die because you didn’t do OPQRST or due diligence, then a full refund and even some more is necessary. Funeral services fees, family insurance, etc. etc.
But… Of course, as metaphysical workers… These things can be simply bypassed without serious repercussion. Hence the ethics/morals behind making it into a business.
AAR,
I appreciate the extensive conversation, under Kyrian’s thread. I believe these are good examples for Kyrian in their own journey of seeking their choices.
On the other hand, I am not here to judge the choice you have made for your field of work or how you want to make money.
the discussion I have so far is about the clear differences between metaphysical services in comparison with real medical services.
I am in both fields, so I make my own discernment and ethical decisions based on my own experience.
A reiki healer, psychic, or “spiritual guru” can be wishy washy and speak in tongue to me if they want to.
But I don’t want to see my physician or therapist doing that, and I imagine none of us would either.
There is a misunderstanding here. Now perhaps it is because of mercury retrograde LOL.
I never intended to say that certain “job” is more worthy of making money.
My whole intention is to say that
“Every choice comes with its own causality.”
I realize this is RA speaking and they can be very “wordy”, but I am not following your response to Kyrian talking about separation.
To me, it feels like all the talk about not charging for spiritual things is literally making this issue an “other” problem. Like, only unenlightened individuals charge for spiritual things.
Or that spiritual things are somehow “other” to physical things. Which is absolutely not the case. Physical matter does not exist. It is an illusion of our perception. So to say that it’s okay to charge for physical products that have cost the seller something is different than non-tangible services doesn’t make any sense.
Also, it still feels to me that you are creating a line in the sand between whether it is wrong or right to charge for any spiritual service or product. Which is judgment. And there is no judgment of better or worse, wrong or right, good or bad in the Law of One. These are all just experiences that we are intending to have, the intentions coming from Higher SELF and being acted upon in our human body.
If our “top priority” for lack of a better term, is to follow the guidance of the higher self, some people may be led to charge for spiritual services or products in order to have that experience to learn what they prefer or to learn what works more efficiently or to learn what is the highest good for all.
It is not always immediately easy to tell what is the highest good for all because of our limited perspectives and so, we need to follow the guidance of the higher self.
Just because you are guided to allow “others” to make up their mind about whether they will or will not pay you for services, does not mean that those who do are “wrong” in any way. We do not know the hearts of others, nor do we know what their guidance is.
I hope this doesn’t sound to confrontational. I am just trying to talk straight without fluff. 
This is beautiful, and I have a sense that this is the way the world will one day look for all of us.
quote=“Jayce, post:27, topic:1132”]
This is not a good business model, I won’t be rich doing this, nor can I support myself.
There are no “clients,” and a lot of folks will assume the service is free. (Which is true, and it is fine with me)
But again, this is my karma, and my choices on how to use my abilities.
[/quote]
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming then you have another job in order to support yourself. Wherever you work, the owners are creating products or offering services for a price. Because they charge a price, they can pay you a wage. Why are you creating a seperation between the way that you make money at your job versus a possible way to make money with spiritual work?
In both cases, people need something. It doesn’t matter whether it is physical or spiritual.
According to RA (can’t find the session) they were asked whether it was more prudent to serve an “other” person spiritually first if they were hungry. RA firmly stated that of course, it would most benefit the person to have their physical needs met first. So, wouldn’t it make sense to then say that food should all be free?
It is neutral though.
You even elude to it with your very words. It is a tool that can be used negatively or with ignorance. True. It can also be used positively. The tool itself is not “powerful” just sitting there. Just like a hammer is not powerful just sitting there. A hammer is just a tool. It can be used to fix a house or it can be used to kill someone. The power in the tool comes from the people who use the tool.
I am confused now. 
I don’t mean to laugh at you, but to relieve my mental tilt. Hasn’t the jist of your entire narrative been something like disagreeing with people charging for spiritual services or products???
People know, or they SHOULD know, not to put blind trust in spiritual workers. If someone decides to go to a spiritual worker to heal their cancer rather than to a doctor, that is THEIR doing. Not the spiritual worker. Most people have the logic and common sense to understand that spiritual practitioners can’t promise an outcome.
BUT - People should also know not to put blind trust in regulated, professional, doctors and therapists and whoever either. Not just because they make mistakes, but because everyone’s body and mind are different. One type of “supposed” proven therapy, can help one and kill another. Not only that, most medical services claim that there are no alternative methods than what they provide at a hospital or clinic and they dismiss other relms of health care.
In my opinion, the health care system, at least in the US does MUCH more harm than good. Not just from honest mistakes, but from money-driven companies that drive clinics to essentially sell their products and services in the guise of health.
My point wasn’t whether it was likely or not… my point was that if spiritual workers fall under “entertainment” and use disclaimers with their clients and customers, that is a fair label to let people know that we are not claiming to be 100% effective or have anything all figured out. Having a disclaimer is the same at a movie having a rating system so people know what they are getting into. I’m not sure what other kinds of regulations there could possibly be for spiritual workers when we are not claiming to be able to cure anyone.
The medical system goes out of its way to advertise its services and products and in my opinion, manipulate people into thinking that if they just take this drug or do this therapy or have this surgery, all will be well. When in reality, its about money. Its about creating people who are dependent on the medical system and keep having to come back for more.
Of course it goes out the window.
But so does having to buy food or clothing or a home. If a person was all alone on the planet there would be no need for spiritual services or products at all, because you are the only person to serve. You are the only one who eats or needs anything at all. There is no need to go out and get a job, because money doesn’t mean anything if there is no one else.
But we don’t live in that type of world.
In order to free ourself, our first duty is to follow the guidance of higher self. And that doesn’t look the same for everyone else. Yes, there is ease of access with technology, but that does not mean that everyone has the ability to put that into action.
In the case of a married couple who have a family, one of them may very much like to live like Rob Greenfield (I have been familiar with him for quite some time now) but the other person does not want to live that way. Not to mention the internal guidance of all the children.
Being self-sufficient in the way that Rob and others do, is not something that everyone has the ability to do. First a person would have to have the money to buy a piece of property in order to live in a self-sustainable way. In order to have money, a person must have a decent-paying job. A job that pays enough to not only supply their needs, but enough to save money to buy the land in order to even start the process of being self-sufficient.
I can’t subscribe to the idea of convenience being wrong. Not everyone’s guidance is leading them to have a homestead where they become self-sufficient. And that is not the only way to get to a place where we lose our dependency on money. There are infinite ways to become a community of people rather than a competitive people.
But it doesn’t lower the sense of importance either.
Of course there will always be someone else to help those in need if I am not there to do it. And of course I always have options to make a living. I am after all making money cleaning, which I don’t mind, but I certainly don’t prefer it. And it doesn’t feel like my highest guidance. It feels more than a personal choice though. It feels more like a “calling” if you will to pursue the spiritual workers path in a full-time way. But I am also not attached to outcomes. I am taking each step as it comes and making decisions based on how in feels in my body and what feels like the highest good for myself as well as others.
I don’t really think we can judge what is or what is not service-to-others in this way. If I am doing my best to follow my higher self, which is leading me to serve others, because that is my intention, then I have to trust that the guidance I am given is oriented towards service to others.
Its not lucrative for everyone. I am a co-founder of a collaborative and the majority of our members are spiritual workers who do not make very much money at all. They do it because they feel called to do it, and it is their passion.
And, there are plenty of other businesses that one could pursue that make you a ton of money where you can be your own boss and make your own rules.
I’m not sure what types of spiritual workers you have been in personal contact with (not online personalities) but as for myself and the ones I know in real life, its not like it’s “easy”. I and those I know spend a lot of time, energy and even money in our businesses in order to help people. None of us just sit down with a person and then be done with it. There is prep time, there is our own spiritual work we do on ourselves to be a more pure channel, there is money we spend on the technology we use to create our products and make our services possible.
If it were really that easy, why are the majority of workers still at their 9-5 jobs? The VAST majority of people I know in real life have full-time or several part-time jobs where they work for other people in various ways. If being a spiritual worker was more convenient and an easy way to make money, WAY more people would be doing it. Just because we see it all over YouTube doesn’t mean that it’s that way in the real world. Remember, we are fed by the algorithm and that doesn’t necessarily represent reality.
For me, and speaking from experience, it has been MUCH easier to work for a company cleaning their bathrooms and kitchens and work spaces than it has been creating a business from scratch for my spiritual work, building a website, creating products, and making my services accessible. I don’t have to spend a dime of my own money working for a company cleaning.
My husband works full-time for someone else too. AND we have a small business to care-take vacation rentals, snow removal in the winter and general cleaning. Having this business and starting from scratch took less effort, time and money than it has creating my spritual business. For me, every job I’ve had since I was 14 has been much easier in a general sense than my spiritual work.
quote=“Jayce, post:30, topic:1132”]
Opposite actually, I am trying to say that internal work shouldn’t be placed with materialistic values.
Which is my whole discussion so far, in short, I have been saying that I personally don’t feel it is right to place money on spiritual work.
[/quote]
But if you say its the opposite, (which I assume you mean that spiritual work is more valuable) why would you be okay with charging for material things but not spiritual things? If the internal work that I help clients and customers with is more valuable (going with what you said) than material things, why would it be service to self to charge them for something invaluable?
Am I misunderstanding your angle?
I don’t put much stock in credentials or peer reviewed stuff or research if what it produces doesn’t help people. So much of what is perpetuated as science, is again, underpinned with money and manipulation in order for some kind of agenda or self seeking thing.
I’m not against therapists or medical doctors or any other specialist. I have been needed their services at times in my life and I am grateful for them. But the majority of the help that I received has been from people who don’t have degrees or credentials. There have even been spiritual workers online that others have demonized, saying that they are greedy and manipulative that I have actually benefited from myself.
Your top statement feels a little dismissive as if I don’t know myself well enough to know what has helped me versus what has not.
I did not once say that counseling, suicide prevention or any other therapy isn’t helpful. I said it wasn’t helpful to me personally. I know plenty of people that these things have helped.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare spiritual services to a conventional health care system. They come from two totally different foundations, looking at completely different modalities of health and wellness.
neither of them negates the other. They can both co-exist and simultaneously be of great benefit to those who are in need. Not everyone is going to resonate with the conventional system and not everyone is going to resonate with the spiritual side. Which is why they both exist.
Our culture has long since placed their beleif in the conventional medical system, that “power” that we have given to it, carrys weight. There are not many people who believe in the power of the mind or the use of energy as a method to healing. Just because a spiritual person/worker goes to the hospital doesn’t mean anything…I’m kind of lost as to why you brought it up. We all use whatever service we can at the time that it seems the most appropriate. Again, just because we seek external help for a physical illness or injury doesn’t negate the spiritual work.
Reiki masters, as far as I know, don’t claim to be in the business of emergency care. They don’t tell people to come to them instead of going to the hospital.
In an earlier comment you had said that you had seen spiritual workers telling their clients basically “saying it is so” as if their words were the final say. Some may do this, but if they do they shouldn’t.
I’m not talking about diagnosing someone. I am talking about certain medical doctors thinking that their way of health care is the only way to get healed. I don’t beleive that. There are MANY ways to get healed.
If someone has diabetes, managing blood sugar with insulin is NOT the only way to find reprieve from symptoms. In fact, many pharmaceutical drugs do only that. Manage symptoms. They don’t actually help the person’s body heal at all. Whereas there are herbs, diets, energy work that can and does actually help a person full heal, not just manage symptoms. I’m not saying it happens in 100% of cases, but it does happen. Same thing with cancer. Many doctors say, “Radiation or chemo is the ONLY way!” and they dismiss everything else…yet, I know people in my personal life who did not choose the route and helped their body heal without ever getting radiation or chemo or taking any drugs.
If a person came to me with a headache I would NEVER claim that I could heal them. In fact, no one but themself can heal themself…or rather, it is the realization of health that is occurring. I would NEVER tell them not to go to the doctor. So what would they blame me for anyway? The only thing I do as a spiritual worker is help people realize the power that they already have inside of them. To help them know themself. I’m not actually doing any of the healing, neither is any person who calls themself a healer.
I do not think of it as simple or as a hobby. Quite the opposite. I feel it is a great responsibility to be an anchor of love and light and a help to realization.
A person who claims to be a healer who thinks they are doing the healing does not understand the process.
There is no responsibility though if a spiritual worker is not claiming to have the answers or perform some magical healing 100% of the time. I don’t know a single spiritual worker in real life or online who tells people not to seek medical attention and instead rely on their services…so I feel like this is a mute point.
Are you talking about speaking light language? If so, I would LOVE it if my medical doctor or surgeon or therapist did that in conjuntion with their practice. I would feel like it would be a perfect blend of conventional medical science and metaphysical aspects.
I would love to see both “sides” work together to provide services to those who need it rather that there being a seperation mentality.
Thank you for clarifying. I perceived it that way.
If you press Ctrl-F you can quickly search for words/phrases that was used in this thread.
I tried looking for the context you mentioned about me saying “saying it is so” from spiritual worker.
I couldn’t find it. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding.
For diagnosing, or treatment… these are very clear that if you are not a medical professional. You shouldn’t do either for anyone.
Modern medicine isn’t like how you described. It is called medical “practice” or a “practicing physician” for a reason. New findings, research, and treatments are always being considered and being implemented.
again, the difference is that all claims are methodically examine and rigorously researched.
When compare with metaphysical works, it is a pale comparison. Rarely it is “he say, she say” scenario.
Of course, modern medicine still cannot be “generalized” across the board. Different practice has different approach. But all are based on consistent and educated findings.
If you are not doing anything, then why do you expect compensation?
How is this different than having a good friend talking to you and giving you sound advice?
But a friend wouldn’t ask for money after talking to you…Would they?
That is very true, and that is why when you tell someone it “cost” this much… the “realization” is that this is a paid service. Simplifying it to clientele relationship.
When I help a loved one, I expect nothing in return, knowing that the relationship will foster services to each others regardless of some kind of monetary transaction.
An example of this is… And assuming that if the metaphysical service is a “business”
(not using your service as example, but just in general)
- A stranger approach the “metaphysical worker” for service. There is a price tag labeled on a “moving scale” depending on the person’s ability to pay or not. Also it is labeled as “donation.”
Actually… that alone right there is already mucky…
Imagine, your best friend, Tom, is coming to you for help. Are you going to direct him to your “donation” page? So he would understand how it works and how to “pay” you?
Or are you just going to help him and tell him “don’t worry about it man, we are friends.”
If everyone is your “best friend,” then why bring in money?
It’s just contradictory.
The bottom-line is that there are separation in the relationship between facilitator/client, and money just make things a bit simple to sell stuff.
I don’t understand how you do not have responsibility when those who comes to you are seeking very personal assistance for their life and very personal matters.
I don’t think people goes to psychic or “healer” to have them wash their car for them.
On the other note, ALL spiritual workers does this because it is dumbfounded and common sense. You’re not a doctor, or a licensed therapist. If you were, then there’s legal repercussion. License revoke, barred from practice, etc. etc.
That is reinforcing my point that the “business” is an “entertainment,” but it is a form of entertainment that muddle into psychology and medicine, “claiming” it’s efficacy from pseudoscience.
I honestly don’t see how one can claim the efficacy of their work, and saying that it’s actually “nothing.”
The “mute point” is very valid observation, because the service is similar to a mime artist giving the audience “something.”
… noo? that previous statement I made was grounded in common sense and reasoning.
As in, I don’t want a medical professional to be burning sages instead of telling me what is in my blood work.
And yes, there are “cross-over” from both fields.
When you are terminally ill, you can request any spiritual services that you feel most fitting to provide spiritual comfort in your last moment.
From all the points I have made, I don’t know if it is clear that you cannot be in the operating room, period.
An AED save lives… Not reiki, or “spiritual.”
I do give my thanks to you for this extensive discussion.
It is humbling to see the justification of business in spiritualism.
I apologize if there was confusion.
My point has never been about taking a side.
Like I have said, I’ve been on both sides.
After receiving an education and learning about the human body.
At the same time having been through the “spiritualism” industry.
All I can say is that if someone want to jump off a cliff and say that they can fly.
I simply shrug and witness the miracle.
Externally, choices and experiences of other-selves are met with their own causality without my involvement.
Internally, I’ve made ethical choices for myself to not charge people money in this field.
Thanks for the time and talk AAR, please do continue if you feel you would like to discuss further.
I do see where you are coming from and this is the best I can explain my opinion/experience.
Best of luck, and much light,
I’m not sure if you meant to sound this way or not…but this statement feels very condescending and judgmental to me. I have been sitting with the feelings it brought up in me since last night when I read through it the first time because I don’t want to make assumptions about your intent.
By saying this (from my perspective) I am under the impression that you think that I am doing something that is unethical and not sound practice and essentially “wrong”.
Justification implies that something wrong has occurred.
I was not aware of this function. Thank you.
I think there have been MANY misunderstandings between the both of us. From both “sides”. I keep getting confused about many of your responses because it seems like you are taking something I’ve said either out of context or perceiving what I’ve said in a completely different way that I mean to say it. I’ve tried explaining myself in different ways (which is why my responses have been so long) but I don’t think I am accurately representing myself…either that or you are not really hearing what I am saying.
I am wondering if there is a language barrier of some kind… perhaps our native tongue is not the same or our cultures are very different???
At this point, there are so many things that I feel has been misunderstood (and possibly I am misunderstanding you as well) that I don’t know where to begin.
There are a few points that I will try to correct from your last two posts though.
#1 - I never said I am not doing anything. I said that I am not healing them or changing them in any way. The help I offer is an invitation for self-realization. Through which, a person will come in contact with their true self, realize their healing has always been there and hopefully, allow themself to let the work continue. The work that I do is something many people have a hard time doing by themselves. Not everyone of course, but the vast majority of us need an external tool or some type of catalyst to help us realize ourselves. So while people have the ability to do this work themself if they are dedicated enough, they often don’t know how to start the process…which questions to ask, how to look introspectively or even how to use the catalyst that presents to them. So, I act as a sort of teacher, pointing them to what they already know, but weren’t aware of it. I don’t tell them what to do. I don’t diagnose them. I don’t cure them. They do that themself AFTER I have acted as a teachrer/tool/mirror.
#2 - I don’t “EXPECT” compensation. I don’t EXPECT anything. I list my services “donation based” so that people know they can access my services for free if they do not have any money. But I also let others know they can give to me if they want to because it helps me be able to eat food and pay my bills. I don’t set a price or even a “suggested” donation for any of my services. ONLY products that I create which cost me money to produce. No different than if you walk into Walmart or Target or wherever you shop. People are sellings products in order to make money because that is their job and that is how they make ends meet.
Again for clarification…my services are free if people can’t afford it or don’t value my services.
My products are sold for a price. These are tangible, physical products or digital products that can be downloaded…art I create, music I create, books I write, etc.
No, I do not direct my friends or family to my donation page.
Just like farmers share a meal from the bounty of their harvest with friends and family…and yet set a price to sell their bounty to grocery stores and markets. If all the farmers gave of their bounty for free, they would eventually lose their farm, go bankrupt and have to go find a job elsewhere. If all the farmers did this, none of us would have food to eat because we don’t all have the ability to live off the land and be self-sufficient.
Giving for free only works 2 ways that I can see:
#1 - If you know and trust the universe beyond any shadow of doubt that all your needs will be supplied no matter what. There is no shred of doubt. Only knowing.
#2 - If we lived in a utopian type of world where everyone shared what they had, where money no longer exists and where everyone had the love in their hearts for each other without reservation. This only works if EVERYONE does it. We are moving there slowly, but its not going to happen over night. Slow changes need to be made.
It seems to me that you are of the mindset that healing or change comes from outside of a person and that “healers” or spiritual workers are performing some type of miracle that is causing a person’s body or mind to change.
I am coming from the mindset that healing and change comes from INSIDE a person and that “healers” or spiritual workers are only acting as teachers/tools/mirrors in order for a person to see what they had all along.
The only reason people even need a “healer” or a spiritual worker is because many of them have a VERY difficult time seeing what needs to be seen by themselves…or if they do, it takes them a very long time to actualize what they have been seeking.
THAT is why there is no responsibility.
The responsibility is on the person to do the realization.
I can’t force someone to use catalyst in their life. I can’t force someone to be more of who they really are. I can’t force someone to access their healing.
If you believe that spiritual work is nothing more than entertainment and that there is nothing more to back it up but "pseudoscience, why are we having this conversation? Why are you even on this LoO forum?
I’m not trying to sound harsh…but it doesn’t make any sense for you to think this way and be doing any kind of spiritual work at all. Do you even believe healing without a doctor is real? Do you even believe in people having mystical experiences? Do you even believe in the power of the mind?
Could you rephrase this sentence? I am having a hard time understanding what is being said…it is almost as if there are missing words or something. And I don’t know what AED is. And I don’t intend to be in the operating room…so I’m not sure what this sentence means…
I am still confused.
You seem very against anything to do with money and spirituality and yet make it seem like you are not being judgemental. But being against anything is by its very nature, judging things as “other” which creates a separation. Which, the Law of One is specifically not about.
The Law of One is SPECIFICALLY inclusive, saying that there is no “other”. That there is no wrong and right in the way humans make things out to be. That ALL things come from the ONE infinite Creator.
This is true.
BUT - there are people who are specifically seeking to hasten their experiences to be used as catalysts for growth. This is EXACTLY why they go in search of spiritual teachers and workers because they want to speed up the process and end their suffering and they don’t know how to do it themselves.
That’s great! But the word ethical is subjective. Just because you decide that for yourself, does not mean that others who do not do this are wrong.
Personally, I do not feel like I am justifying anything because I don’t see anything inherently wrong with business and spirituality mixing. Because to me, EVERYTHING is spiritual.
When we start saying this is spiritual, but that is not spiritual, we are labeling and judging. Thereby creating separation.
I don’t see a separation between the metaphysical/spiritual and the physical because physical matter is an illusion. It is all the same to me. I don’t see any way to make money as “unethical” unless we are infringing upon another person’s free will.
The ONE infinite Creator is seeking to know itself and have an experience through BOTH spiritual services being provided for FREE and for spiritual services provided for a price. The Creator cannot know one unless it knows the other. This is all just an experience in order for us to learn and grow through. Maybe in the end we will find out that charging for spiritual services didn’t work out so well…but maybe not. It hasn’t had time to play out fully so the results cannot be tallied yet.
All I want for my personal life is to have the Creator live through my human life. The only way I know how to do that is by following my passion the best I can to it’s end until I cannot do it any longer or until there is a road block or until I can see it is not serving me or “others” any longer. And as long as I respect the free will of “others” and I do my best to be exactly who I am, that is all I can do.
This is not an excuse or justification.
This is me doing the best I can while I follow my heart. 
Carla
Let me see if I can restate what you said so that J will hear it differently, cause I think I know where the hang-up is, because it says in the Bible, “The love of money is the root of all evil.” And it doesn’t say that “Money is the root of all evil,” at all. It doesn’t say that. It’s the “love” of it. And what you’re trying to say is that when you have a love of position or a love of possessions or a love of money or power or influence, those things, that means that you basically, you’ve stopped seeking spiritually and you’ve started seeking a god that is temporal, that is going to die with you; you’re not going to be able to take it with you. And that’s the delay that you’re talking about, is that you’re—because of your love of this money or position, you’re just putting off seeking spiritually. Whereas a spiritual seeker might well have money, but if there isn’t an emotional load on it, if it’s considered as a tool, like a carpenter would use a saw or something, if it’s considered simply a means to the end of paying the bills and getting on with things, that’s not a problem, spiritually. It’s the love of it that causes the problem. Is that what you’re trying to say?
New SpeakerLatwii
I am Latwii, and am aware of your query, my sister. This is the gist of our attempt to speak to this subject. May we hasten to add that we do not judge or condemn any entity which loves the money, the power, or the position, for each entity in each action is the one Creator seeking to know Itself. However long this process may take is quite appropriate to each entity, and we would not suggest that if one seeks these items that one is not a spiritual being. One is at all times the one Creator, perfect and whole in each portion of Its being.
May we answer you further, my sister?
This is from a session on the L & L page. December 16, 1984
Now, I don’t follow any book or channel or teaching dogmatically or religiously. But since we are having a discussion on the Law of One forum, I figured it would be appropriate to bring in at least one quote from the many, many sessions and meditations that have been done by L & L.
If you do a search on the L & L website search page with “money” many sessions come up talking about money and it’s involvement with spirituality.
I feel that the most previous comments on May 13th shines a lot of light on the discussion,
and it will be timeless in it’s own unveiling of much of the confusion.
If you feel so inclined, please do re read the comments and perhaps it will help.
The misunderstanding I can see on your end is that you think I am saying it is “wrong” to charge money for spiritual work. (Again, I am not saying it is wrong.)
The misunderstanding on my end is possibly thinking that you are saying metaphysical work is equally important as conventional medicine. (AED is an automated external defib.) It’s used for people who is having a cardiac arrest. (Heart attack.)
The assumption on “judgements” made, or how I view the discussion has been taken a bit too personal in my opinion.
I am not here to say if it is right or wrong. I am only sharing my own opinion and experience.
What I have been saying all along is that.
“Every choice comes with its own causality.”
With the previous assumption and examination of who I am, what I stand for, and questioning why I am on the forums etc. etc.
I feel it is unnecessary for me to give further information about myself or explain further. Since that is how you see me.
All I can say is that, and again,
“Every choice comes with its own causality.”
Respecting the freewill of creation and infinite creator,
I am not at the liberty to talk about the physical and spiritual rewards/consequences of ones choice in this path.
This is for you and those who wishes to rationalize the choice to find out,
I hope this helps,
I did not intend to make a jab at you in any way at all. Sorry if it came off that way.
My comments about being on the forum or what you believe wasn’t an accusation or an assumption.
Those were sincere questions.
No pressure, but I am actually interested if you would like to indulge. But totally cool if not. I suppose this is what is hard about text-only conversation…much is lost without intonation and body language.
I have always been a person who LOVES to question everything and figure things out and really try to understand where people are coming from. I know that can be a little overwhelming to some people and they take it as a type of interrogation…which is not my intention at all. I very much enjoy trying to see from other people’s perspectives, even if I don’t agree. I like to know people’s reasonings behind why they do what they do and why they think what they think and the circumstances that have led them to where they are now.
I did go back and re-read the posts from the 13th…but I am still having a hard time seeing what you are pointing to.
You are probably right. And despite you saying that it is not wrong, some of the past words/phrases, at least from my perspective make it seem so. I’m not sure it’s worth going over again…maybe I am just dense. 
These last two comments are where I get confused between “not saying it is wrong” and the choice of words you used here. Rationalize and Justification are two words that are usually used to describe something that someone thinks is wrong. It feels contradictory to me when you use these sentences but then say you don’t believe charging for spiritual services is wrong.
This has me very curious.
If I am asking about it, will it still be considered a free-will infringement?
Could you expound a little on this?
I replied in DM format,
I feel our conversation is taking up a lot of Kyrian’s OP.
Please feel free to continue there