The debate on how 3rd density is repeated

So there are two theories as to how people believe 3rd density is repeated.

Group 1 believes at the end of a 75,000 year cycle, those who have not polarized will go to a planet which has progressed to a point in 3rd density that is most suitable to their goals. Ex) someone who has very little in the way of preventing them polarizing might be sent to a world nearing its final harvest, while one who might be halfway there could be sent to a world 40,000 years into its cycle.

Group 2 believes at the end of a 75,000 year cycle, all who do not polarize must begin a new cycle starting at the beginning.

I find this whole thing very confusing. What does a cycle even mean? Clearly harvest itself is a continuous process, and any entity can be harvested at any time they polarize, and that the 25k, 50k, and 75k points are just eras in a planet’s history in which there are a greater number of catalysts allowing more to polarize. So then surely, the whole idea of having to repeat a whole density is a bit…extreme? I thought the material said “no progress is lost” or something like that. And having to repeat a full density, or being sent to a planet far less advanced to your spiritual level sounds a lot like progress being lost.

Anyway, thoughts on this?

Why are there only two theories on this subject, according to you?

16.39 Questioner: I am assuming it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from third to fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.


Do you have another idea?

I’m not saying anything definitively.

My understanding is that this ‘cycle’ is attached to the ‘realm’ and/or ‘planet’ and not the ‘entity’.
The ‘entity’ might ‘logged in’ to the respective realm (space) at respective time to rejoin the ‘next cycle’ of ‘that realm’.

Some example might be:
Entity A failed to be harvested (positive or negative) in earth’s cycle will ‘logged’ in to 3D planet “Kuldadak” (it’s a made up name) for estimated 3 incarnating session there prior to “Kuldadak’s” 3D harvesting cycle.



They are probably furries and plant people. We now have people in our society who would rather be a dolphin or a tree. So this is not surprising.

Both groups are valid.

Repeating high school after 18 doesn’t mean you are “18” again. You are a fully grown adult and will receive a GED.


Like NASCAR, you either think it’s boring or see the intricate complexities behind their strategies.

Although, this is not a race against time or others. You are pacing yourself.

The concept of “heaven” and “hell” is also extreme. Until one realizes that heaven and hell are the space of one’s own creation.

I think that

The less you understand, the better. Like sillyharold’s comment with 16.39

The information could deviate one’s growth to focus on the “destination” of an infinite “journey.”

I usually ask “are we there yet?” when I am bored.


“ They are probably furries and plant people. We now have people in our society who would rather be a dolphin or a tree. So this is not surprising.”
Are we sure dolphins are not third density? I don’t personally want to have sex with one, I just don’t find them attractive, but unfortunately I’ve investigated strange phenomena in general on the internet long enough to know that both genders of dolphin will occasionally have consensual sex with humans…. and even kill themselves due to separation after long term bonding with a human.
Larger brains, language, a more complicated environment with more movement options in many ways, I don’t know. Can they think abstractly? I think it’s a reasonable possibility. Here’s holes for your white rabbits:

I wish I could get government funding to take lsd and ketamine and try to talk to dolphins like Lilly had at one point…

I’d try being a tree for a bit. Probably only a week at most though. As much as our extraterrestrial friends love their meditation, meditation and not much else would quickly become boring, for me at least.

As for furries, that’s a bit much, but just the ears and tail of a cat? The Ctarl Ctarl Empire don’t look half bad in that hot springs episode I watched repeatedly when I was eleven years old…

Obviously reincarnating as a hot 4th density catgirl would be choice though. So I could spray the Orion Empire with green love lasers since the densities above that are too wise to engage in the thought war.

I’m assuming Star Trek would not lie about the appearance of the Orions I’d have to love into not enslaving us; I’m sure the universal muses thrust an accurate description into the minds of those working on that show, right? Right!

“ I usually ask “are we there yet?” when I am bored.”
Well, hopefully my higher self isn’t shaking its… headlights… at me for my current thought patterns. I like to see progress, and once I found out and confirmed it to my satisfaction via various modalities, that we fragments are living in an illusion, while I have my own critique of the mechanics, if the infinite wants to code games for itself, what is the game?

Questioner: You mentioned the word “Empire” in relation to the Orion group. I have thought for some time that the movie Star Wars was somehow an allegory, in part, for what is actually happening. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct in the same way that a simple children’s story is an allegory for physical/philosophical/social complex distortion/understanding.”

So by learning love via suffering and all those mechanics I’m not the biggest fan of… I’m leveling up my spirit in Spiritual Knights of the Old Republic!

Knowing how to help others without abridging their freewill is a trickier mechanic than simply incarnating in a position ripe for power and hoarding influence, money, and illusion wealth and selfish pleasures. Ra states the negative starts off quick but then gets very difficult, or something to that effect. So the KOTOR games are both third density, act cartoonishly evil and you can beat the games with lightning hands alone, easy. But apparently my spirit is more whatever the Jedi that healed stuff with the light side was called, now that’s a puzzle, beating the game as THAT!

Anyway whatever happens to me when I die… I better get to keep my xp points! Yeah, sure positive polarity feels better, but one can gather xp points in the service of love!

As to the thread, if I have to repeat the whole of third grade, I better at least get to pick the school. Because conditions of our society make playing as a Jedi class rather than Sith really, really difficult in comparison.

Are we there yet?

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This thesis has been always making me confused. Especially considering following. Looks like polarized entity should not understand.

71.2 Questioner: I have several different questions. In this session I hope to establish, by searching around with several different types of questions, a point of entry into an investigation that will be fruitful. I would first ask is it possible to increase polarity without increasing harvestability?

Ra: I am Ra. The connection between polarization and harvestability is most important in third-density harvest. In this density an increase in the serving of others or the serving of self will almost inevitably increase the ability of an entity to enjoy an higher intensity of light. Thus in this density, we may say, it is hardly possible to polarize without increasing in harvestability.

I think every rule has exclusion so the said above is related to entities who has never been harvested. But I have doubt what exactly is not related. I mean do a Wanderer of fourth, fifth, or sixth density needs to not understand Law of One (to harvested)?

70.15 Questioner: I think to try and clear up this point I’m going to ask a few questions that are related that will possibly enable me to understand this better because I am really confused about this and I think it is a very important point in understanding the creation and the Creator in general, you might say. If a Wanderer of fourth, fifth, or sixth density dies from this third-density state in which we presently find ourselves, does he then find himself in third-density time/space after death?

Ra: I am Ra. This will depend upon the plan which has been approved by the Council of Nine. Some Wanderers offer themselves for but one incarnation while others offer themselves for varying lengths of your time up to and including the last two cycles of 25,000 years. If the agreed-upon mission is complete the Wanderer’s mind/body/spirit complex will go to the home vibration.

Perhaps saying it this way will help.
One that has chosen his path or spiritual direction (polarized) and is anchored in is very likely to be harvestable.
And no, the entity does not have to understand the Law of One to be harvestable, however, the entity must have chosen whether it is service to self (selfishness 95% of actions, thoughts and intentions) or service to others (radiating love outwardly 51% of its actions, thoughts and intentions). Does that help? IDK…

No, they do not have to understand the Law of One, however, they may vaguely remember or feel compelled to learn it and search for knowledge. They may have begun to search for and to learn the outer teachings after many incarnations, they may be drawn to mystery schools where they will be working with certain systems to help their recollection of who they are and their previous knowledge, etc
Some may remain in service by radiating love and yet never recall that they know this law. You see, Wanderers already know this Law yet some cannot remember it and that is perfectly ok.

There may be a theory that the school
of humanity spans many lifetimes and
that time between incarnations is used
to both review and plan progression,
typically with the help of those in service
with such things.

Another theory may be that over some
time, people polarize in strength of degree
which enables their graduation to upleveled
states of being. These upleveled states
are compatibility sensitive, meaning in order
to evolve through those lessons, some
space from the contrasting polarity is

Furthermore, some theory of veiling may
suggest the details of who, what, how, when
are expected to be fuzzy in favor of the
notion that fuzziness tends to enhance the
strength of polarization and bolster the
chances that graduation can take place.

There’s likely many, many theories which
have no accessible hard and fast data
beyond hearsay of intelligent beings.
In many cases of Law of One study,
experience precedes study in ways that
support conveyed concepts. Over many
cycles of such study, a trust in some
higher intelligence can develop which
may support theories in lieu of having
strict hard and fast data.

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I haven’t come seen any information in the material with regards to the progression of the new 3rd density experience one might find itself in. If someone finds a transcript, let me know but I don’t think it matters. The reason I don’t think it matters is through considering wandering behavior. Wanderers will come back to 3rd density to polarize further and faster than they otherwise could on their home density. With normal wanderers they are usually recapitulating teachings or offering services to less polarized people. With 6th density negative, they just don’t know how else to polarize further because they are unwilling to accept other self as self. With this being said, it does not seem to matter at all as to how progressed the 3rd density experience in relation to the individual. It is only a matter of using the catalysts for growth.

This harvest is drawn out in an unusual way. According to the material, our 3rd density experience will become progressively uninhabitable and its 3rd density expression will end for quite some time. At some point, everyone still in 3rd density will have to find a new 3rd density experience. Again, I don’t think it matters at what progression this new planet is but the proper vessel of expression and pre-programmed catalysts are paramount.

What makes you think that someone in a new 3rd density experience has to repeat a full master cycle? One should be able to be harvested through major (25k) cycles like normal.

With regards to extremes. Check out 16.61. I just read that and was like wow did Ra mean Major cycle not master cycle? Apparently wanderers can be infringe upon and caught up in 3rd density vibrations and repeat a 75k cycle.

Please consider this selection from Q’uo:

If that soul has stopped in third density, then it chooses, completely on its own and with no judgment involved, to repeat the third-density experience. In many cases this decision will not simply be for another incarnation, because this is the time of Earth harvest. It will mean there will be a 25,000 year period during which that spirit will enjoy third density upon another planet. However, it is not a punishment to repeat a grade. It is simply the right place for that soul that enjoys that range of light. If that spirit has stopped across that quantum divide between third and fourth density, that entity may then choose to begin a series of incarnations in fourth density and can be said to have graduated from Earth’s third density. For each person that experience will be unique. To our knowledge, there is no general harvest but, rather, the individual harvest of each soul upon each soul’s schedule. 2001-0204

You are talking about progress being “lost”, or no longer had or known, but how can a portion of unity ever be lost? Q’uo says all movement is progress for that soul. Even 16.61 can be considered in such a light:

I am Ra. If the wanderer entity demonstrated, through action, a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be, as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and, when harvested, possibly repeat again the master cycle of third density as a planetary entity.

A negative orientation toward other-selves may cause a wanderer to repeat a third-density master cycle, but why is that judged as bad? To leave the master cycle will require stronger positive polarization in the wanderer than before, which might be exactly what the wanderer is seeking.

In fact, repeating a master cycle might be viewed be a self-imposed extreme survival mission, where you go into an unknown wilderness setting with limited resources, push your limits, and come out stronger than before. Who knows, maybe fifth density provides earth with some spiritual “thrill-seekers” or “survivalists.” :slight_smile:

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Stephen’s Quo reference is quite interesting. I was thinking about this same topic today: In one major cycle of ~25000 years, it’s easily 100-200 incarnations for a human even if they take decades or century of resting/reflection time in inner planes, so does the graduation occur when someone makes the grade in any one incarnation? or graduation only happens at the time of harvest? (Genghiskhan moved on to the 4th before harvest, it sounded like an anomaly though) Say out of the 200 or so incarnations on earth in one cycle, human A failed to polarize sufficiently in 180 incarnations but made the cut in 20 incarnations if each incarnation was evaluated independently, or it doesn’t work that way, each incarnation prior to harvest is not to be evaluated by itself for graduation purpose at all but only at the time of harvest, human A is evaluated for her polarization in totality distilled through ~200 incarnations in a major cycle?

Maybe I am thinking about it too mechanically, maybe the totality of many incarnations and one transcendent moment both work for graduation and show thru the entity’s violet ray at the time of harvest?

To my opinion:

  1. Yes, it happens only at the time of harvest.
  2. But if gateway to the intelligent infinity is found, entity can leave third density.
  3. Who already was graduated can leave depending on contract with Council of Saturn (many specific cases).

No it doesn’t need to “wait” for another harvest cycle at any 3rd density realm.
The thing is:

  1. Time is not constant/absolute in any point of space and/or it’s linier.
  2. When the soul is ready for ‘next lesson’ and has firmly chosen it’s path (STO or STS) then it will graduate.

Consciousness dictate the experience and not the other way around.
Thus, here’s the caveat, if one firmly believe that he/she need to wait for 25k or whatever time for harvesting time to ‘graduate’ then that will be exactly what he/she will experience.

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Very informative Q’uo quote about individual harvest

I searched for “war” and found this thread.
There seems a chance that 3rd density
is not repeated. I imagine 2nd density
individualized fight or flight mode people
fresh out of the animal kingdom are not
able to polarize for whatever reason or
maybe they repeat 2nd density after
flunking 3rd. This might explain some
curious cat and dog behaviors.

Related to second density, many warriors
look at their foes as animals worthy of
slaughter. They pseudo-speciate people
as less than human.

Balancing topics of war can be challenging
for some who find it highly discordant.
Actually, many of the Law of One sessions
can be difficult to balance. Music may
help some to better deal with it, as if
music can be a balancing aid that helps
people access hard topics they’d rather
carelessly ignore or avoid. Maybe putting
care and attention to any topic improves
by sustaining balance without overwhelm.

This is a lyric improv for Law of One
session 20.

(Song beat similar to
Metallica, One)

As dead confused about everything.
Self conscious but a painful lean.
Incarnation not ended clean.
A culmination of violence.

Angel gardener may intervene.
To wasteland of squandered seed.
Retarding fight or flighting bleed.
Extinguish progress means.

A violent choice into a shorter life.
Oh dirt clod, break free.

Back before ill human-hood.
Vicious animal barely stood.
A being evolved out of the wild.
Weak choice into perpetual child.

A bullet rock charged powerful.
Vibrations adversarial.
Blundered costs exert control.
Catatonic isolation.

A violent choice into a shorter life.
Oh dirt clod, break free.

Difficult consequence, one ton.
Oh clod, kind be.
Drop intensive catalyst.
Oh dirt clod, kind be.

Garden’s disturbing seize.
ill-hearted beings.
Fighting people.
Squandering life.
Lack of progress.
Sick vibration.
Telepathy useless.

Flunking sick weeds.
Flunking sick pests.
Flunking sick soil.
Flunking sick toxins.
Flunking sick choices.
Garden don’t graduate!