Q’uotes Discussions

Seems like a fun movie havent seen it… but its interesting how its based on true story but it was in a swamp. An the ideal of Münchausen trilemma " the Munchausen principle?
In epistemology, the Münchhausen trilemma is a thought experiment intended to demonstrate the theoretical impossibility of proving any truth, even in the fields of logic and mathematics, without appealing to accepted assumptions. If it is asked how any given proposition is known to be true, proof may be provided."

Of further interest theres also the famous story of Jesus walking on water and his disciple upon being encouraged Peter starts to as well but then once the mind got busy on thoughts of doubt he couldnt anymore…

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Strangely, some people may think that intelligent
infinity seems something smart very far away,
however everything is made of iotas that contain
information; the truth is it can sit nearby unnoticed.

Possibly part of what’s going on is simply holding
a love of iotas wherever they may be, and in
that loving connection - intuitive information can

As people grow more loving kind and discerning,
the trust in their intuition might embolden, like
a shortcut to using the measure and pen.

In other words, listening to your intuition can
seem like taking a leap of faith, however that
may be just the spiritual practice that cultivates
connection to intelligent infinity, where love
enables intuition to work in more trustworthy
ways, i.e. improve love and improve intuition.


Thanks, very eloquent words there soup :wink:

” …
Your uniqueness lies not in that you are children of love, but in that no two unions of love and free will are the same. To the outer, or mathematical eye, to any measuring instrumentation that could be imagined, this uniqueness could not be discerned, for free will, when bonded with love, takes upon itself the quality of love. The free will portion of it, the active portion of it, is forever, and in a way that mathematics cannot describe, various. Each of you has an absolutely equal, identical portion of love, and each of you has an equal and unique measure of free will. "

I think there’s cases of identical twins
who marry identical twins where appearance
might seem similar but personalities differ.
So even if you’re fortunate to be such a twin,
an individual uniqueness prevails.

The other thing that strikes me here is the idea
of identical portion of love. This seems to
touch on the idea of sexual energy transfer,
where green Ray reciprocates differently
than the other Rays, it’s special in that when
the transfer is made, each can benefit by it.

I think the mutual benefit effect has some
dependency on the heart centers of each
as open. If one is blocked, it doesn’t
transfer to the same extent as both open.

As cords of love connection differ then
the perception may likewise differ even
though the love energy’s reciprocal.
Perception as relative seems unique to
an individual.

Mathematics of love might be approximated
by mathematical irrational numbers, such
as Phi = 1.618…a basis of golden ratios;
however knowledge of it seems suppressed,
probably in part due to it being irrational.

It takes conscious kinetic work to generate
green heart rays, and I’m thinking that
this work is underrated - that is actually
more important and significant than people
give it credit for - because humanity might
be somewhat heart ray retarded.

This touches on the unique measure of
free will mentioned. Some people consider
we all share the same number of minutes
in the day. So we may choose uniquely
the activities we participate in. Some may
consciously choose to enter meditation
states and resonate heart rays to the
universe, others may simply react instead
of being say heart ray proactive.

Also, experience of time can get tweaked
which also seems unique.
Choice of activity and experience of time
may relate to unique measures of free will.

I think there’s another component -
which is focus or singleness of thought,
that holding focus improves transfer.
Such focus might be a wisdom element
that helps sustain balance.
A balance of love/wisdom then helps us
evolve without unnecessary confusion.

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I paid attention to the term, don’t know where it’s taken from. Veil is an aspect of consciousness. Not unconsciousness. So what is dividing consciousness and unconsciousness is situated in consciousness. It’s like a fence between you and neighbour is on your plot.

Trying to understand the word aspect I’ve found such meaning: “a particular feature of or way of thinking about something, esp. something complicated”.

So maybe veil can be interpreted as consciously thinking there is a free will.


It’s indeed so, some people try to “struggle” with DNA mechanism so much, it’s incredible.

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Well if you still have interest… perhaps meditating on the veil can help, this image below on Great Way of Mind- Tarot card may be of assistance(the curtain part in the card)… even just quickly doing it now it can bring a strange sensation! One thing close to it is waking and recalling dreams


Or this one

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Thank you. Interesting to compare with one that I have.

I realized that that all these entities should have their Higher Selves :slight_smile:

However, it is extremely helpful if you remember to thank the unseen guidance that you have, your higher self, your angels, those ministering beings that are attracted to you because of your energy, your vibration, your hopes, and your dreams. Ask them every day for their help and thank them for being with you. That frees them to enter more fully into the process of offering you synchronicities.

This may be a subtle thing that may not
resonate because life can seem asynchronous
sometimes, beautifully orchestrated other times.

Possibly there’s some contrast of disharmony
that lends appreciation for harmony when we
stumble across it - pause, appreciate, and
express gratitude as part of that harmony.

I think Ra referred to Carla as “the instrument”,
and what a grand orchestra the Ra Materials
might resemble. I also think that Carla studied
music in her free time and may have had some
appreciation of well orchestrated classics.

So imagine we are part of a grand symphony,
we want to do our best to bring forth a collective
result that is magnificent. I think this is how
Ra saw it, and how Don, Jim, and Carla saw it.

And wow, thank you for such remarkable example!
The care, the alignments, the preparations,
the execution, and the finished works!

How can we orchestrate ourselves to help
bring out the best in each other?
Please and thank you’s! It’s the Secret!


This makes sense, which, as far as I understand it, I will try to expand on, taking advantage of the opportunity you have given by developing this thread.

I think to make this explanation as practical as possible I will refer to Virtual Reality. Let’s assume that someone is interested in setting up VR goggles for some reasons, any reason really, simulation, fun, games, experimentation, work.

How could VR be related to metaphysics? Well, by building an anology between virtual reality and the real (physical and metaphysical) world, such as we presume it to be. I would distinguish the following analogies:

  • The reality, the state of ordinary functioning for someone who does NOT have VR goggles on, analogously would correspond to the state of being outside the body, outside the illusion of the body, outside the veil.
  • The reality after putting on the VR goggles would be the reality that would analogously correspond to our being in the body in 3 Density.

Just like in a game/simulation, we impersonate someone and learn completely different skills while testing and learning about ourselves, being exposed to a virtual environment that is completely different from the real one that’s outside of the VR goggles on. In the same way the real (or truer) in metaphysical sense environment will be that of the higher Densities, while in the 3rd Density our environment and the body we have impersonated will be an illusion, just as the player is in an illusion after putting on the VR goggles.

I think interesting things can be derived from comparing Computer Science to how the metaphysical world works on its own and relative to our physical one. The famous Matrix movie comes to mind.

And back to your words: “So maybe veil can be interpreted as consciously thinking there is a free will.” That’s what it could be… Using this analogy to virtual reality: For someone who perceives the game/simulation outside the goggles on, he will say: “Everything you do there (in VR), you do outside of reality, you don’t have any “free will” being there, this game/simulation is outside of real reality and your will there has no effect on reality.”

In the same way, someone from a higher Density to ours could say that everything we do here does not correspond to this true free will that they have, because they see us (us in 3D) as beings living in a certain bubble, a certain structure inside of which we make various choices and actually discover and learn many things, however still being in “other” like “virtual” reality.

For someone who is in a virtual reality game/simulation (which analogously corresponds in my example to life in 3D), it will all be real and he will be making real and meaningful decisions for his character, in that game/simulation, therefore he will be completely convinced of the importance of free will and that he has it fully at his disposal, but from a certain perspective, all this free will and his awareness of this free will is merely an illusion.

So do we have free will or not, in this current world? And yes and no, I think so, it is a paradox. We have free will and we don’t, it all depends on which perspective we look at it from.

We have free will, however, and in and out of the illusion of the 3 Densities. Although it takes on a different expression, the distortions of veiled reality determine what shape the will ultimately takes.

Well, I would say in that case that the veil, it’s something that allows the paradoxes to exist without tearing down and displacing of different realities. Thanks to the veil, the reality behind the veil and beyond the veil can exist at the same time, so that the Creator through us achieves the benefit at each of these levels of manifestation of Himself.


Great Way of Spirit, Tarot card or called Universe.

80.21 Questioner: Then I would guess that the twenty-first archetype would represent the contact with intelligent infinity. Is that correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct, although one may also see the reflection of this contact, as well, as the contact with intelligent energy which is the Universe or, as you have called it somewhat provincially, the World."

The symphony can be heard… the music of the spheres is one name for it. There is no other sound more beautiful its the true sound of silence.

Key part of the card… notice the genders as will all those tarot card - female representing that awaiting unconscious energy male the conscious reaching energy.

I could say to meditate on it and leave it at that… but well why not roll the carpet out some more…

while keeping in mind that card an specifically the image of the female playing the male instrument …

"I am Q’uo and am aware of your query, my brother. This is precisely correct, my brother, for within each being exists the completeness of the Creator—both that which is masculine, that which reaches, and that which is feminine, that which awaits the reaching. Each entity is a combination of both these forces or features of the nature of creation, for all of creation is held in place, shall we say, by the polarized charges of the positive and the negative, the male and the female. Thus, the entity which is able to harness the balanced mating of these two qualities within its own being, is able to raise its center of consciousness from one chakra, or energy center, to another through the efficient processing of the catalyst of the daily round of activities that accumulate according to the activation and balance of each energy center.

Thus, as these qualities of male and female begin to be expressed in a balanced fashion within each energy center, then each center is activated and balanced and able to channel the intelligent energy of the One Creator more efficiently as it continues to expand its awareness of catalyst to each ascending energy center. Thusly, each seeker of truth becomes able to utilize any catalyst which comes before its notice in higher and higher levels of expression, so that eventually the realization of the One takes place within the seeker of truth’s indigo and violet ray energy centers."

An thus equals contact with intelligent infinity… Both talked about it in the first quote from RA.


Thank you for sharing about this card,
the Great Path of the Spirit. When you
shared this I felt awestruck because
I need to discuss this profound archetype.

I wanted to love more exquisitely so that
I could share with others how to do that,
and honestly I felt Ra’s love for the Sun
is likely an ultimate source of reference.

I consider the great path archetypes as
sharing a special quality, that is an unusual
ability to scale our perspective from say
something small as our mundane peon
individual existence to something grand
and magnificent as our galaxy of stars.

And loving exquisitely from Ra’s high
vantage is not gross hand-holding body
experience, nor is it something mental
but likely spiritual in nature. So the
Great Path of Spirit, The World seems
an obvious choice to say evolve so.

It took a lot of seeking to discover many
elements that factor into this interplay
which might reveal something important
to a modern rendition of the graphical
clues offered.

I discovered in ancient Persia they
regarded red wine as sacred because
it helped reveal your true self. So two
glasses of red wine help me transition
from mental to spiritual; (I’m a drug free
blood donor and live clean normally,
but this is a special experience, I need
to be as spiritual as possible for it.)

The graphic has an upper and lower
depiction that relate to each other,
a ba-bird within a Wreath of Blue Lotus
(Nefertum) as sharing similarity to a
maternal woman breastfeeding a baby
as sitting on Blue Lotus and creating
harp music. (I used Lavendar fragrance,
which helped me feel cared for, and a
weighted blanket as textile that helped
me feel gravity hugged.). A ba-bird is
a spirit bird, (Ra is often associated to
a falcon or hawk.)

A really basic starting and endpoint here
is Gaia Grounding Meditation - an ability
to anchor yourself in waking reality at the
entry and exit of the experience. To me,
this is why it was named The World, it
is like a lifeline on a transcendental
journey so we don’t lose ourselves in it.
The weighted blanket helps me feel
grounded in making the full circle.

One thing that I discovered is that music
played on these ancient harps commonly
sounds like minor key tunings, these are
slow bittersweet melodies that might tug
the heart strings. (To me, JS Bach was
obvious, i.e. Violin and Oboe in D minor.)

The music meditation links a creative
visualization of Ra’s Ba Bird flying along
the violin notes in a courtship with the
Sun on oboe or as Orchestra. So there’s
an experience of love shared between
say a violin and an orchestra, as there
is between Ra and the Sun. Once the
visualization links, the meditation seems
as if riding upon Ra along the Sun in
their love affair encounter.

Another element is a sense of the Divine
baby, an immense feeling of vulnerability
met with an immense feeling of care that
is met by immense intimacy. For many,
this is a barrier of entry - restricted access
because the experience involves scaling
perspective to embrace the love between
Ra and the Sun, as a divine baby. This
culmination, an embrace of huge scale,
seems the transcendental ka that then
delivers an immense profundity that
seems likely my reason to share about it.

Transitioning from such embrace held long,
I then imagined Carl Sagan’s pale blue dot,
going back to Gaia Grounding Meditation,
then a sort of lasting bliss stupor for
some time.

In response to the Q’uo idea of balancing
feminine and masculine dynamics I think
there was something similar represented
by Egyptian Heka as symbolized by the
twisted rope and embrace which later
became the Caduceus related to magic
and medicine.

Today I think of these two balanced
dynamics as the Stoic and the Epicurean
(or Hedonist). For example to play a violin
takes incredible self discipline
(Stoicism), to find pleasure in the notes of
the Violin takes degrees of Epicureanism,
and from some grateful appreciation of so
many elements contributing to such
experience, comes gratitude in bringing the
best humanity might offer, as exquisite.

I might offer to those enraptured with the Sun,
part of the immense mystery seems in the
Sun’s ability to be an orchestra of orchestras.

I might offer to those enraptured with Ra,
much of the Ra Materials reveals a Stoic
side, however my experience revealed both
a epicurean side, and an immense divine
kernel - that escapes most mental study.

My perspective has changed - I interpret the
Social Complex Ra as having Trichotomous
attributes, in more ways than one, and this
may be why Ra warns not to go it alone,
please include others in Great Path seeking!

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Daily Quo…

"Now picture with us, if you will, the image of this metaphysical body that is interpenetrating your physical body. There are two sources of the love and the light of the one infinite Creator. One is universal. It moves from the base chakra upwards. The other source is much more focused and pointed. It is the result of the work in consciousness that you have previously done and that exact point at which you are now entering, doing this work at this moment. And this is experienced as coming down through the crown chakra into the violet ray. It moves from the violet ray according to the ways of your energy body.

I write to this group alone to better discriminate
the energies of the readers. It’s as if some writings
might be an impulse to an impulse response.
This is fairly typical of optical and acoustic systems,
I propose it likewise works in spiritual systems.

I have like soul friends who help me sustain
balance because this group is highly energetic
in positive ways unfamiliar. I propose that the
consensus impulse response is top down,
which is not unexpected in a forum that attracts

With a heavey indigo super power, I propose
an experiment to most readers - simply allow
your heart center, humble as it is, to orchestrate
your other energy centers. The heart center
maybe seem disadvantaged in modern culture,
however it has greater cosmic influence in
the picture.

As I have witnessed, doing a n experimental
surrender to the heart center can promote
some magical sense of grace in your life.
Grace seems something to be both grateful
for, and in some regard humble for. Humility
is a spiritual superpower, it seems underrated.


The heart center, also known as the green ray center, is a genuine treasure. The heart can operate more swiftly and subtly than the intellectual prowess of the blue ray.

Whenever inner dialogue, rationalization, or feelings of anxiety begin to dominate, or when something seems to drain the mind’s potential, solace can be found in the heart.

I endeavor to halt the flow of thoughts and redirect all attention to my heart, aiming to “think” through this green ray center.

I’d like to share a visualization from my recent meditation. A pivotal moment in this meditation was when I envisioned a green ray entering my heart, which resembled a closed green flower. This ray encouraged the flower to bloom, revealing petals inscribed with words like “forgiveness,” “forbearance,” “love,” “kindness,” and so on.

As the green ray illuminated and opened my heart, a reciprocal ray emanated from my heart, connecting to the hearts of others. These rays appeared as veins, intricately linking everything into a unified network.


Yet it is surely true, and the full light of day dawns as the seeker sincerely and completely yields itself to grace, if we may use that term. Some call it quested consciousness,

I would really love to hear the audio of this. My instant perception/ impression was “Christed consciousness”- having zero to do with dogma, rather the natural consequence/ result of seeing ALL as Love without exception, and, of course, having the remembrance - as in of our true natures before the veil.


Q’uo 11-22-2003:
…The first distortion, that distortion moving away from utter potentiality and utter peace and rest, is that freedom of will, employed first by the Creator Itself, to know Itself. In making this choice the Creator became, shall we say, the one great original Thought….

Moving away from seems like initially there
was infinite potential in a state of stasis which
exploded into an infinite kinetic with intrinsic
freedom to seek both infinite potential and
infinite kinetic.

It seems a paradox of infinite, as both potential
and kinetic simultaneous - which may never
resolve except as piecewise iotas.

So naysayers of free will may likely feel
constrained in potentials without any sight
of kinetic. The cultivation of will then
elevates energetically to bust out into
kinetic mode.

However if there’s no desire to cultivate
will, a sort of stagnation entraps a state
of naysaying - these are the Matrix
archetypes short of initiating a cycle
of evolution.

A flash of inspiration (The Tower) can
bust the chains (The Devil); a lantern
(The Hermit) can illuminate imbalance
(The Scales); a hot mamma (High
Priestess) can entice poppa (Magician)
to get the party rolling. Once rolling,
a kinetic evolutionary cycle - to know
itself, exemplifies creative free will.

Experiencing experiences seems
testament to free will.


I have often pondered the nature of the beginning. If Infinity evolved into Intelligence, then it leads us to contemplate the concept of Consciousness.

The transition from Unconsciousness to Consciousness has always captivated me—this shift from pure Infinity to Intelligent Infinity, even preceding the First Distortion.

In time, I’ve come to understand that Consciousness, among other attributes, emerges as a consequence of transcending the Mirror of Consciousness/Unconsciousness. In this perspective, Consciousness becomes a reflection of Infinity. Infinity, in this context, might be analogous to Unconsciousness, considering the original definitions of both terms.

If I embodied Consciousness, standing before this Mirror, I would select the finest reflections that the Infinite Mirror offers.

Given this, I’d choose Free Will for myself (First Distortion), eager to harness this boundless and enigmatic potential. From this bounty, I would select the pinnacle: Love (Second Distortion). To navigate and harness this Love effectively, I’d choose Light (Third Distortion).

In essence, I, like all of you, stand on the other side of this Mirror, each possessing our unique consciousness. The distinction is that part of our consciousness has already taken form, creating some finite structures. Yet, a part of our consciousness remains at the brink, gazing into the Mirror of Infinity and Unconsciousness, presented with boundless potential, being open to our limitless possibilities.


This reminds me of Einstein’s idea of
mass energy equivalence. I think in
cosmology there’s a notion initially of
immense energy impulse congealing
into mass which formed galaxies, etc.
I think recently the Hubble constant
measured by James Webb Telescope
indicated expansion consistent.

The four forces of Physics: gravity
electromagnetic, strong nuclear,
weak interaction, electromagnetic;
all play a part in this ongoing interplay
between potential energy and kinetic

It may be that our volition or will to
engage in activity is related to our
energetic state.

The fool archetype, aka The Choice,
travels light, there’s low baggage,
just a knapsack. So the low mass might
complement low potential energy, low inertia,
and higher kinetic energy. It seems as if
The Choice seems more active than inactive,
more fearless than otherwise.

Could The Choice hold some key to
Free Will that seems understated?


It diverges slightly from your post, but I’m addressing it because of its tangential relevance. The metaphysical concept of love/light, viewed as a manifestation of Intelligent Energy, bears a potential relation to quantum mechanics.

Imagine releasing a beam of Intelligent Energy (love/light) and distorting it. This would create a wave, and in physics, a wave is a distortion that transmits energy.

In renowned experiments, photons or electrons were directed through two slits. These particles displayed wave-like properties. One might interpret this wave as a perturbation of intelligent energy. From this perspective, the metaphysical concept of “Intelligent Energy” is transformed into a wave, transitioning from an abstract notion to a pervasive “substance”/waves throughout the physical universe.

Extrapolating the characteristics of this experiment to our broader reality, these distortions might permeate the entire universe.

As the experiment suggests, in the absence of observation, the electron/photon traverses both slits simultaneously creating wave. Yet, when observed, it commits to one slit. This decisive act shapes our perception of the object, correlating with the tangible material world we deem solid and consistent.

Given that particles like photons seem to react to an observer’s consciousness, it’s plausible to suggest a form of “communication” or connection between the particle and this consciousness of observer. This potentially hints at, for example, the photons possessing a form of awareness, underscoring, this way, the essence of Intelligent Energy (love/light).

Merging this with the idea of Choice, everything in existence might be tethered to a conscious decision (and thus collapsing the wave). Our perceptions and experiences stem from choices, perhaps made at a profound, intrinsic level of our being, creating a visible world and experience. Beyond these choices, nothing inherently exists in isolation.