Free will and the Creators Light... I disagree

I used to end these posts with a invitation, a direct question to others to give them a hook into what I was saying so that post isn’t just a blog post. But people have not once responded to the actual question and usually add their own post from their own leaning, so I won’t do that.

I am probably skirting close to speaking in a way that doesn’t respect free will here. But it is hard to know such things. I suppose two things make this potentially not an issue but it is still a concern 1) The people here are already familiar with these sorts of concepts, so have, in a small way, agreed in free will to discuss them and believe in them 2) I am fairly fallible, I am not a diety like the Law of One contact; and anonymous so could be lying.

Anyway, I have been wrestling personally with this. Someone I know/ knew. A family member, I have wanted to pray for. But in my own personal interpretation of the world as it is thus far, unless prayer is explicitly requested or agreed, I have found there to be some non positive pushback when I engage in it and see it as a violation of anothers free will. There was one exception to this which I will mention.

Anyway, this is the session I am referring to and do not agree with:

Rather, whether it is from your being or through your hands, the love/light moves through you, not from you, coming from the one infinite Creator. It is for this reason that there is never any concern when love/light is offered, because it is the Creator’s light, and it is not an invasive or pushy light. It goes where the need is. And if the entity to whom you are sending light does not wish it, then it shall gently surround that entity but not enter its auric field. For free will is infinitely respected by the Creator’s light.

From https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/2009/0124

These are the experiences I have had with attempting to use prayer and/ or energy work to aid others:

A) In my teens or early twenties did some prayer for all those around me before bed each night. One of my close friends had an experience during that time that we both felt, I think, came from said prayer. He had had an argument with his fwb about him watching porn and she was now angry with him. He told me to stop doing this and not ever do it with him.

This guy engaged in a lot of degeneracy and has started to come around now more than a decade later due to medical issues.

B) Sent energy to my mother who came home many times more stressed than normal. Only five minutes.

C) Sent energy to a family member who became aggressively suicidal during this period. A very passive aggressive and dark person. Felt like he was trying to “throw off” the prayer.

D) Sent energy to mother again who had a sudden issue at work losing her laptop. It felt like since someone is being given an extra energy, if they are atheist and can’t identify what the energy is or why it is suddenly there, they are more likely to push against it.

E) One that was actually successful. A female friend I had I have mentioned. Borderline and horrible insomnia. Month after month sometimes with about an hour sleep a night as she told it. I prayed for her once without telling her and she slept through the night. Phoned me super happy. Another time when I prayed for her she phoned me and said she had had a good day and was suddenly far more happy. This person was open and happy to receive prayer though. When I told her after the first insomnia thing she was happy and positive about it.

I have also found, on a basic feeling level, that if we are to send energy to someone they will likely send energy back. Even if that person is just responding to their own thoughts and a sudden thinking of the person sending energy. I sent energy recently to about four people. One I got a positive response back from. I felt. But another person I suddenly felt a deep understanding of the amount that person disliked me. I don’t think there is likely anything positive about the interaction even if I am only sending positive energy to the best of my understanding.

It seems to me the drawback of channeling is that it loses an element of an ongoing communication. The entities, Q’uo, are open respecters of free will but the people that then follow on from the teaching do not necessarily have the understanding to explain the teaching in any way that makes sense. It is because it is sort of thing. Whereas a real physical person working through spiritual concepts can be questioned and challenged in the moment.

I do like the Q’uo readings and a lot of it is very, very on the mark for me. Also, a general feeling of positivity i feel opposes the mundane drag of life and gives strength to do boring things, and counterproductive things we have to do.

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Hello Phoenix, interesting post.

To me in general if you send love, without any request, I do not think this alter the free will of the person you send it to. Sending love has. a neutral quality by itself if you do not add to it a silent request to be accepted, or commented on…

Just m y little opinion.

I tend not really to use prayer a lot but I meditate very regularly and sometimes I sort of bring in the thought of someone at the beginning and now… I wonder if I alter then their free will, lol

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I work in a similar fashion, just being grounded in a loving sense of ‘undefined well willingness’ (with lacking better words for it) in the direction of difficulties.

Does it do any difference?
well, in a situation where i can do nothing else, i feel like having done something of value, no matter how minor that may be.

So if I’m honest with my self, it’s probably something that makes a bigger difference for my own well being, and my emotional resonance, than for the individual I’m hoping to support in their time of difficultly.

and in the end, the kindest thing we can do for the people we love, who we are not in the presence of, is to take care of our self, in a similar fashion that we would love if they took care of them selves, for our sake.

a person in my life, who is struggling with the will to live, and has a tendency of neglecting his own needs, comes to mind…

Others difficulty can be heartbreaking, while also heart opening.

i also really like: Hoʻoponopono, something i find as an inspiring idea within this context, even if it has been ages since i practiced it.

Basically it’s about healing the part of our self that is wounded by others wounds, and through this we enable them too heal better, as our healing is part of theirs, vise versa.

i like that view, even if I’m not sure to what extent it’s true.

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So well said from my own perspective too, Raz

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I heard a perspective on this from the same philosopher that I often talk about. Someone said they had abusive parents and one of them was suffering dementia. They said that all they could do was pray for their parents and the guy responded: “Why would you pray to lift gods perfect judgement?” The point being that they have been abusive for the questioners whole life. Why would you question gods judgement?

This seems to correlate kind of perfectly with not sending energy to people due to free will.

I think that’s interesting because it seems to me if we are to believe that the Creator has laid down free will then free will should have reasons in each case it was the best solution. So in that case the free will thing is explained in this way.

I get that you two don’t think that sending energy and/ or prayer influences free will. To me it seems very logical that it does. In my own life though I don’t have people that are anything like this;

a person in my life, who is struggling with the will to live, and has a tendency of neglecting his own needs, comes to mind…

Or, actually I do but they are extraordinarily toxic and hate my guts.That is the suicidal guy I mentioned. Perhaps my energy which is super ‘get up and go’ actually empowered the guy to be more active in his suicidal preferences.

Most people in my life seem to not have the energy of needing aid or love but moreso having the energy of needing boundaries drawn with them. Like, I would like to have a connection with my sister and I have tried very hard there, but she keeps flaking on me and not responding to things. She is young but seems quite determined to take decisions that will probably end bad for her. So what can I do?

Most of this revolves around status as well. Which I think is something I can contribute to philosophy on and such. Like, I can perhaps articulate some sort of truth on status in relation to all this stuff. But, it is a high percentage chance I will stay low status for most of my life. But, there is a possibility this won’t be the case and I will gain status at some point. This is, I think, on some level, a common male goal.

So if my health was good enough and I was able to use my IQ and/ or some skill to gain money, or some sort of thing, despite starting late in a lot of ways. Would all the people that I have known in my life and have seriously disrespected me suddenly want to see me again? Would my sister continue to ignore any messages I send her?

Also, since I am changing the offer does it matter? Are they obliged to treat me the same way low status as well as high status?

Anyway, went off the subject a bit at the end there. It might not be a huge surprise that I did not get any good results when I tried Ho’oponopono, when I first heard about it. Before I even heard of the Law of One.

i think influencing free will and imposing on it is very different.

like the difference between,
giving a hungry person food without asking,
and robbing someone.

The idea of free will is a very abstract one, and trying to isolate it as an independent concept, outside of the complexity of totality, feels a little forced to me. everything influences everything, on some level. i think it can be distilled down to ‘the art of not forcing’ and the endless practice of balance.

The idea of free will is very appealing at first glance, but honestly, I don’t feel like digging deeper and expanding the idea with stories around it, has given me anything other than a sense of mental clutter.

while i’m open to the idea that others can have practical use of the tree that grew out of the conceptual, symbolic seed of free will :slight_smile:

in summery, love the Core idea, as it implies responsibility, something that can be very empowering when we assume it,
while a little skeptical about some of the things that has sprouted from the idea over time.

in regards to status, not as a real response to your pondering about it, rather continuing it, i wrote something about it in Swedish. it’s about titles, witch is essentially part of status.

Here is an AI translation of the Swedish original, even if some of it’s linguistic elegance was lost:

From the way we’re born, and how we live,
we gather titles along the way.
Something to soften the feeling
of being lost and exposed.

Child, adult, and retiree,
defined by circumstances and personality,
cultural titles drapes
over every trace of individuality.

The practical use
is worth our gratitude and care.
Our society evolves in step
with the title-systems at its core.

Foundational concepts
that guide and motivate us,
in our shared space.
And surely, this reaches into
how we navigate
the privacy of our own place.

Meanwhile, our icebergs of personal experience
crystallize, far more beneath the surface
than in the visible peaks
of our social identity.

May I conduct myself appropriately
within our title-based originality.

But Phoenix, I wonder about your perspective on this, how if sending simply love without any quest as influence of any sort, simply Love, how is this impacting free will I mean there is no request to send it back, there is no aim sent really for that person to act in any way, Love is just love, purely sent with no request no quest of any kind.

The person is free to react ( what is more it is sent silently) if he/she feels it, to react or not

I do not see how it is impact free will in this case.
There is no other intent from the sender than simply send love. Nothing else.

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So Raz, your post seemed contradictory to me. You started by defining a concept that you feel is relevant or explanatory of free will, then spent about three paragraphs saying that you don’t feel it is a useful concept. So why define the concept?

To me it seems like a profoundly useful concept. Since it is one of the main teachings of the Law of One it would seem a strange thing for anyone to say on a forum like this.

And on the Titles poem. Titles and status are not precisely the same thing. Say your poetry suddenly took off because a hyper talented musical rendition of one of your poems went viral :wink: And people started paying attention to your poetry, inviting you places and whatnot, doing random favours for you. You might go up in status but not in title per sey.

But Phoenix, I wonder about your perspective on this, how if sending simply love without any quest as influence of any sort, simply Love, how is this impacting free will I mean there is no request to send it back, there is no aim sent really for that person to act in any way, Love is just love, purely sent with no request no quest of any kind.

What I offered was my perspective through experience. We can’t even say this is all super objective since much of what I explained came from general sensations and thoughts seemingly to connect with certain other things.

My personal experience could have any number of individual factors. You seem to be applying it universally, or at least also to your experience, but I have not made that claim. We might be from different densities. Perhaps something positive I have which you don’t adds something positive to the energy stream I send that some are not able to confront.

And remember, even then, one of my five or so examples was one where the receiver was very positive about the whole thing.

I was also using prayer. Prayer deliberately chosen because I thought the higher positive forces would be able to moderate the energy in any way needed to preserve free will. But, for me personally, there was no dice there.

Like I said, I would like to pray for my sister because… I cannot even begin to explain. Very traumatic background, very attractive, early twenties in her literal prime, no father in the house, neurotic dysfunctional mother. The girl is a leaf in the wind in a world I see as unkind.

But, I do have a thought to express here. When the Law of One contact talked about Free Will. It was not optional. It was absolute. Free will, to my best description, is the idea that people have to make their own decisions to arrive at the Creator.

There are a few circumstances where free will doesn’t apply. But I won’t go off into that tangent.

As an example of a way peoples free will might be manifesting, in Book 4 there was a section on the significator of the mind where it talked about how a lot of people polarise positive when they receive negative catalyst and polarise negative when they experience positive catalyst. There is obviously more to it than that but, it is not inconceivable that certain people will have a better life path in the end if they do go through the dark night of the soul, initiated by their own choices, that most of us would probably prefer they didn’t. It is not inconceivable some people might want to, on a deeper level, experience abject despair that love would save them from.

How many people have to reach rock bottom so they can realise that God is the rock at the bottom?

That is just my best thoughts on it so far. But your relationship with the higher forces is your own. If you are violating free will that is a significant issue and you should feel resistance in your life that would show you it’s not the right way to go.

I will also re- state that Carla Rueckert. Whom I’m sure almost all here see as more of an “authority” on this subject than I will ever be. Did personally advise, or advise through Q’uo so she probably believed, that sending love does NOT violate free will.

in regards to tites and status, i feel there is most definitely an accuracy in what you are saying there.

in regards to your comment about my previous post, (edit, while i understand it was a little long winded, sorry about that)
if you look again, you’ll see that i did not reject the concept of free will in that equation, only the idea that there is a practical use in expanding it beyond what is tangible and truly confirmable in a human perspective :slight_smile:

in regards to how you carry on with your view on free will, I think we are pointing towards the same thing, i just prefer the notion of practicing balance as i feel that includes free will at its core, without over expanding it.

omg, i just realized something, i have been over expanding the concept of titels in to status, without even realizing it, like i have been doing that for almost a year, since i wrote that part i translated from Swedish :smile:

Thank you, that put another load of my mind
:pray: :relieved: :green_heart: :slightly_smiling_face:

It just came to me that you might have been doing something similar with over expanding free will in to balance? just a thought that came to me.
yours to consider or discard :slightly_smiling_face:

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omg, i just realized something, i have been over expanding the concept of titels in to status, without even realizing it, like i have been doing that for almost a year, since i wrote that part i translated from Swedish :smile:

Thank you, that put another load of my mind

Title and status? The thought comes from how I have been thinking about power. I notice that women don’t seem to perceive the UNBELIEVABLE power they have in their youth to actual power. They often consider themselves to be victims and thus, don’t take their power seriously and are not happy when they receive karma back from that. This is of those I have known.

The reason they don’t see their power as power is because it is not what might be inaccurately called ‘negative power’. If a woman is attractive and smiles and guys start doing things for her. Guys still have the free will to NOT do things for her. I am basically unmoved by attractive women. But the power a corporate leader has to hire and fire people and set up or collapse entire departments is what they see as real power. Because it has a negative slant to it. You can basically fire people for no reason and act like a twat in corporate.

This works in a lot of different areas. But it’s why I quickly separated those concepts. The negative power of a sort, it’s not strictly negative as in service to self but it is something of that. That is the title. The authority. The power to tell people to do things.

In contrast to womens true power which is to get people to do things because they love her out of their own free will. To engage in consentual trade where the guy basically gives up a great deal for her. I suppose this in a sense is more positive but, well, these things are complicated.

In reference to the positive sense of power and status though. If I wrote a book on spiritual areas and was known for writing good music I would gain status of ‘personality’ in a sense. Which is a real status. These concepts are very real in the service to others power and status are not just service to self concepts.

It just came to me that you might have been doing something similar with over expanding free will in to balance? just a thought that came to me.
yours to consider or discard

I might need to set up some sort of signature here that says something like: ‘I don’t understand what that means’. I legitimately don’t understanding some of these buzzwords. Despite the fact that i do use the lingo in these new age forums.

in regards to how you carry on with your view on free will, I think we are pointing towards the same thing, i just prefer the notion of practicing balance as i feel that includes free will without over expanding it.

You see to be quite fixated on ‘over expanding’. Yeah, to me, the combination of free will plus that point on the significator of the mind really allows one to be at ease with what they can’t control. I have had a friend who I felt real bad for. I was kind of friends with him. Kind of close but he always kept me at arms distance. But he was headed down a dark road. The scurge of hard drugs is really strong amongst millennials. He was also steadily, strongly anti anything new age or religious, very strongly left wing. So I let go, no prayer or anything most definitely, hoping that the negative catalyst he is sure to meet and be experiencing now works along these lines.

If people are only going to polarise positively with negative catalyst, I don’t want to be the one providing that. I want to withdraw!

agreed, i can totally relate with that.

about the idea of ‘over expanding’

to be taken with a grain of salt, as with any verbal equation,

it’s when we take a concept and apply it in areas where another type of concept is more appropriate, more accurate in it’s representation of the layer of dynamics we are relating with.

i feel like free will is a core, personal issue, while balance is part of our individual and collective issues, free will influences balance, and is influenced by balance, it’s our ability to interact with, tend and tweak stagnations within the momentum of our part in the collective ongoing.

(edit, i feel like I’m starting to drop the ball here, thank you for an interesting conversation, hope you work things out with your sister at some point, and I’ll see you in some other thread :green_heart: )

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Sorry about the abrupt end in my previous post, it was around 4 in the morning, and I had been active for a fair amount of hours.

Even if it was a little bumpy coming to this part of the thread, i´m glad i stuck around for the ride, feel like i came out of it with a deeper understanding of free will, balance and the place (and nature) of concepts, in a human perspective.

Thank you for your participation,
i hope it was a win win situation,
where you, like me,
feel enriched by the encounter,
on more than one level.

My regards,
of wellbeing and trustless love,
as it does not require anything tangible,
from you or me,
to be.

Bumpy ride? What are you talking about?

Yeah, half sister as I should have clarified earlier, we don’t have the same mother.

Best Wishes.

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the original tone of voice used when writing can be very difficult to translate accurately in a forum discussion,

in some parts i felt uncertain about what tone you where delivering your material in,

just my subjective experience of your style of writing,

I’m sure there was some mutual confusion in that area, about my material, on your end as well :slight_smile:

(edit, having the reference of your base verbal delivery as a person (i thought you sounded sincere, warm and friendly), in the endless path thread, was the reason i felt interested to participate in the discussion, even though the fundamental word-combinations in this thread, was within a level of structural-vibration i generally avoid geting involved with.

at the same time, i think i sounded a bit like a douchebag in the beginning of the original track i referenced in the endless path thread, that might have biased your interpretation of how i deliver what i say, in the other direction :sweat_smile:

there is a broad spectrum in how we can deliver what we say, and i find that part very difficult to navigate in others writing, outside of a casual or practical context.

in a real life conversation, tone carry words, in a forum, the structure of words, convey the tone, and that opens up for allot of potential misunderstanding about the actual atmosphere in the conversation, as written symbols are not very effective att facilitating the attitude we are participating with. that´s part of why i generally like writing " I " in lower case :slight_smile:

LoL, that turned in to more of a rant than initially intended,
the trick is, finding ways too not go crazy about being crazy :smile:

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lol, nice try at being a douchebag, Raz, I kind of like it, lol

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LoL, I’m glad to hear that flo,

at the time of recording the track, i rewrote the beginning, and in my ears i can really hear that my delivery in that section was more from my head, than from my heart, and it makes me cringe a bit :sweat_smile:

I deleted that earlier post. Or mostly deleted. My sister did message me out of nowhere even though, to my understanding, she had left it quite late. So it kind of invalidated the emotion behind that post. I also slept almost the whole of Sunday. I definitely slept longer than 12 hours total I am only up for a few hours and go back to sleep. Just in recovery phase for earlier medication mishap.

Yeah, still not sure what bumpy ride and such you are talking about. Perhaps it’s a bit like Ned Flanders types of stuff. Like ‘I said Neighbour instead of Neighbourinho’.

That’s ok, it was not intended as some kind of criticism,

refering to it as a bumpy ride, was just a snippet of my ‘thinking out loud’ about the sequence of events that led to a sense of (with lacking of a better word) equilibrium in how i felt about the thread as a whole, and not something i lean on in regards to the context of the post it’s quoted from.

(edit, i moved the concept posted here, to start a thread about it:
The Tree of Human Needs

i first posted it here, as it sprouted from the conceptual understanding that landed for me through this thread.

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LOL, just realized why i felt a little on edge with initiating being part of the conversation. You begin with the titel “Free will and the creators light… I disagree”

The intensity of disagreeing can vary vastly,
am i going in to a thread that is disagreeing on a level of: You think chocolate tastes good? I disagree

Or, The government came up with this “concept” to live by. I disagree, lets overthrow them!

on the spectrum of possible disagreement styles and levels,
it´s very difficult to estimate where a stranger you cant see or hear, is at.

hard to not feel like I´m walking on eggshells, on some level, when going through that kind of door, as it sets up for having a bitter or upset tone from the start, something worth considering in a forum enviorment :slight_smile: