# Mortification or denial of desire

**URL:** <https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950>\
**Category:** Spiritual & Metaphysical Matters\
**Created:** [March 30, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950 "2023-03-30T16:18:11Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 14\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![sillyharold](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/sillyharold/32/2007_2.png) [@sillyharold](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/sillyharold)\
**Post date:** [March 30, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/1 "2023-03-30T16:18:11Z")

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_the subjection and denial of bodily passions and appetites by [abstinence] or self-inflicted pain or discomfort_

I have recently become interested in the spiritual significance of “mortification.”

Most of my life it seems I’ve gravitated towards some form of mortification. Whether I’m engaging in self-harm, or I’m longing to be rid of desire. However, all the resources online that I can find are all based in Christian thinking. Which is fine, I just want a more holistic perspective on this fascinating idea.

Thanks y’all

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**Author:** ![Patrick](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/patrick/32/5_2.png) [@Patrick](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Patrick)\
**Post date:** [March 30, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/2 "2023-03-30T20:06:19Z")

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It is part of our duty/honor, while in 3D, to take the opportunity to experience all that we desire.

> [@](#):
>
> [18](https://www.lawofone.info/s/18).[5](https://www.lawofone.info/s/18#5) **Questioner:** Thank you. I have a question here from Jim that I will read verbatim: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds that belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for an entity to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it’s called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities in aiding an entity to grow more into the Law of One?”
> 
> **Ra:** I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.
> 
> The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.
> 
> The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.
> 
> All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.
> 
> It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.

Only when your desires naturally turns away, from what can be experienced while in 3D, towards wishing to experience more of the Creator. When the desire to know the Creator takes center stage. Then you know that 3D may no longer be required and you are ready for higher density experiences and desires.

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**Author:** ![Mrwho](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/mrwho/32/1415_2.png) [@Mrwho](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Mrwho)\
**Post date:** [March 30, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/3 "2023-03-30T20:14:01Z")

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That’s an excellent point, I think there is value in having a conversation about how positives have a minimal activation of orange and yellow energy centers but have a strong activation of green.

This concept of focusing more on love rather than rejecting desire I think can be very gainful.

Infinite love/light light/love

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**Author:** ![sillyharold](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/sillyharold/32/2007_2.png) [@sillyharold](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/sillyharold)\
**Post date:** [March 30, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/4 "2023-03-30T21:53:53Z")

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There has to be some utility in the denying of desire. With the right intention, of course.

Even fasting is mortification according to the definition in the OP.

While I agree that Love is the answer, it does seem to me that denial of desire can have some utility for some souls here on earth. I’m not talking about 100% denial, but some form of temperance, what can that help a soul with? I am very curious

Thanks yall

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**Author:** ![Patrick](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/patrick/32/5_2.png) [@Patrick](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Patrick)\
**Post date:** [March 31, 2023, 1:07am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/5 "2023-03-31T01:07:52Z")

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Since what we learn while here is not really important, because we know all these things already on the other-side, then what we do here is work on our deeply seated biases in a way that can only be done effectively while veiled. So if for some reason you desire to explore the utility in the denying of desires, then what you are looking for is probably not at the level of any surface desire, but something deeply seated. You could try to find out what kind of an effect denial of desires could have on deeply seated biases and how such denial could be a tool/catalyst to help move in the direction you wish to go. I’m afraid I cannot help very much in that area. Personally, any denial of desires has always backfired on me in this incarnation. But that does not mean that it cannot somehow be of any use for others. There is no “normality”, no generality, we are all very much unique. That is why following your own personal intuition/discernment is _always_ the best anyone can do in any circumstances.

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**Author:** ![Mirror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3be4f8/32.png) [@Mirror](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Mirror)\
**Post date:** [March 31, 2023, 4:18am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/6 "2023-03-31T04:18:56Z")

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> [@sillyharold](#):
>
> There has to be some utility in the denying of desire. With the right intention, of course.

What would “the right intention” look like, do you suppose?

Some people have a difficult time locating their spirit. They suspect they have one, but find it tough to connect with it. So, they figure that if they cut off the life force going to the body to one extent or another, then spirit would be more apparent or more available. The intentions are admirable, but the overall perspective is screwy. It might be better to try to grow beyond the need for abundant self-satisfaction rather than strangling the body in one way or another. For example, deliberately helping and serving others may bring the spirit of love closer to your field of awareness.

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**Author:** ![Mrwho](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/mrwho/32/1415_2.png) [@Mrwho](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Mrwho)\
**Post date:** [March 31, 2023, 6:12am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/7 "2023-03-31T06:12:40Z")

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Without desire there is no movement, no growth. Also no direction, for how can one choose a direction to go if one does not move?

You can sit still and love and things happen yes.

Patience, humility, appreciation, love. I believe this is the true positive path, at least in my limited understanding of it. Pure love, understanding and acceptance of other self without imposing of self in any way.

It is inevitably unwise and naive, I think so.

All is well.

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**Author:** ![sillyharold](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/sillyharold/32/2007_2.png) [@sillyharold](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/sillyharold)\
**Post date:** [March 31, 2023, 2:29pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/8 "2023-03-31T14:29:35Z")

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Thanks you three!

Patrick, I appreciate you highlighting how different this is for everyone and your humility in not being able to offer any perspective on what I speak of. I love you brother! Always good to hear from you

Mirror and Mrwho, what happens when one desires no desire? What happens when one’s desires drain the soul of physical resources, of emotional clarity, of one’s own soul even!

I am driven by my desires, a slave to my senses. I become posessed by these thoughts of “what would happen if I just got high?” or “if I just ate all those cookies!”

I am a slave to these desires. Mrwho, you say “without desire there is no movement, no growth”, however from my limited perspective, my desires seem to be limiting my movement and growth. From my limited perspective, it seems like there will be more opportunity for growth and movement if these things were to be let go of (hence, the OPs topic of mortification"

Guys, these desires are killing me. I hear yall, we are meant to experience all desires in this density. It is an honor and a service. How can i ignore the fact that these desires get in the way of the story being told, as it were? I know in my heart I am here to create, and yet, I cannot when I am so stoned and so full. This is real to me. I cannot in good faith accept this 😕

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**Author:** ![Mrwho](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/mrwho/32/1415_2.png) [@Mrwho](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Mrwho)\
**Post date:** [March 31, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/9 "2023-03-31T20:23:24Z")

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The danger isn’t is in being abused by the selves desires, when losing desire in the self.

The risk is in being controlled by others in a way that is not harmonious.

Think about the thought wars and why only 4th density beings participate in the battles. Let me ask, do you feel inspired to attack or defend for self or others? If not that places my perceptions of you and your questions into a completely different light.

What wisdom is there is fighting the self?

Love seeks to be informed, it seeks wisdom. Compassionate/wisdom knows desire is required in order that we can truly be co creators.

Explore yourself, squelch your desires. There is no loss to the infinite creator no matter your choice.

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**Author:** ![MelissaMiller](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/melissamiller/32/2919_2.png) [@MelissaMiller](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/MelissaMiller)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 1:50am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/10 "2023-04-01T01:50:58Z")

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Would it help to look at the desires not as ‘getting in the way of the story being told’ but as a part of the story?

Are the impluses and desires driven by a deeper need? It might be helpful to build intentional awareness around the specific desires you are experiencing…somatic awareness, emotional awareness, awareness of your thoughts at those particular times. Without judgement. Just curiosity. It may lead you to questions and insights that take you in a fruitful direction.

The without judgment part has been the most helpful for me in my journey.

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**Author:** ![Mirror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3be4f8/32.png) [@Mirror](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Mirror)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 2:35am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/11 "2023-04-01T02:35:20Z")

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> [@sillyharold](#):
>
> How can i ignore the fact that these desires get in the way of the story being told, as it were? I know in my heart I am here to create, and yet, I cannot when I am so stoned and so full. This is real to me. I cannot in good faith accept this 😕

Adding to the post by @MelissaMiller, you might try a gestalt approach, either on your own or with professional help. You can look up Gestalt on youtube and Fritz Perls, its founder, to get a sense of that process.

Essentially, you create an exploratory dialogue between the various aspects of the experience. So, you “become” the cookies and voice their view of the world. You become creativity and voice its feelings about the situation. Then do the same for the dope, for slavery, for the you which you see in the mirror.

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**Author:** ![anon93239903](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@anon93239903](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/anon93239903)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 5:30am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/12 "2023-04-01T05:30:41Z")

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Acceptance.

Ram Dass was thought to be “enlightened” and a “guru”

But if you listen to his speech, he often talks about all his dark desires, psychosis, and struggles still being there even after he became “ram dass”

This is you,

Do you accept yourself.

You first must accept, before you can love.

“Understanding and Love” is this class’s topic.

The teacher/student is you.

Do you accept yourself?

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**Author:** ![FunkyFroggie](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/funkyfroggie/32/4474_2.png) [@FunkyFroggie](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/FunkyFroggie)\
**Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/13 "2023-04-01T21:49:55Z")

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> [@sillyharold](#):
>
> However, all the resources online that I can find are all based in Christian thinking.

I spent a lot of “time” last year observing a particular “self-proclaimed guru” on YouTube who came from a heavily Christian background, who talked of him and a friend “flicking rubber bands against their wrists whenever they had sexual desires” back when they were teenagers to “train” themselves to associate that “desire” with the pain of the elastic band snap against the wrist to “ward” off in a sense, their sexual desires.

Coming from a Christian background myself, I was raised to think sexual desire was wrong, as was having sex before marriage.

Placing rules upon young, impressionable minds, does seem to be the hallmark of these religious works. I haven’t heard of more “holistic” approaches to this method though.

> [@Patrick](#):
>
> We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.

Okay… so what if your desire is to say, as an example, “hurt children, punch out your landlord, or steal from your place of employment?”

How does one “overcome” a desire as such? Maybe I am interpreting this wrong but it seems rather confusing… let me try it this way…

So if the Law of One says it’s okay to “carry out” these desires in your imagination, as long as they are in “agreement” with the Law of One… but what about manifestation?

Isn’t “imagining” these things the same as visualization? Would one create what is in their “imagination” with this technique?

> [@Mirror](#):
>
> It might be better to try to grow beyond the need for abundant self-satisfaction rather than strangling the body in one way or another.

So… the other day I was sitting outside, contemplating life and observing as I usually do, when I noticed that the neighbors family across the street was loading a truck out back with their two kids.

The husband and wife were slowly escalating an argument that was going on all day long (based on what was very difficult to NOT overhear based on the volume of said argument).

The argument escalated until the guy hurt his finger and was complaining of having a hematoma. This then escalated to more fighting. This was done in front of their two young boys.

Now why do I mention this? Because this is something that I’ve been seeing happening everywhere, with both genders, especially since the beginning of the year.

The other day in the grocery store, a woman was accusing an older man of “putting his hands on her.” When she complained to the store, they did nothing about it, she left the store yelling that she was going to call the police.

These are just symptoms of what denying desire looks like.

Why do I say this?

Because our society has designed all these “rules” one must follow. And there are so, so many rules to follow or you’ll be ostracized by your “community.”

Now I am a strong believer in rules being fairly useful, to an extent. It’s useful to follow the rules when driving, as an example.

If you blow through a stop sign and hit another driver, failing to follow the rules made it so that “other-self” is in danger because of your reckless actions.

But what about when the “rules” of society become so oppressive that they cause so much pent up aggression from the lack of fulfillment of said “desires,” that these little “explosions of anger” are let out in more and more aggressive ways? Then is the “mortification of desire” a really good thing? Or is it just highlighting more imbalances in our society?

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**Author:** ![Mirror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3be4f8/32.png) [@Mirror](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Mirror)\
**Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 4:46am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/mortification-or-denial-of-desire/950/14 "2023-04-02T04:46:51Z")

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> [@FunkyFroggie](#):
>
> Then is the “mortification of desire” a really good thing? Or is it just highlighting more imbalances in our society?

The stuff you list reads to me as immature people acting out shallow emotions. As you quoted me above, my suggestion is that we grow up, emotionally speaking.

> [@FunkyFroggie](#):
>
> Okay… so what if your desire is to say, as an example, “hurt children, punch out your landlord, or steal from your place of employment?”

Let’s take “punch out your landlord.” Where do you feel that in your body? Does it have create specific physical sensations, sounds or colors? Can you recognize it being similar to rage you have felt in the past? Can you feel it reaching down deeper into your body? Can you feel if it is attached to other things? Can you feel what’s beneath it? Maybe terror, for example?

Next time you see things going on, maybe you should ask the people involved these questions? Or maybe you could do this with yourself when you have such feelings come over you? If you do it for yourself, maybe it won’t bother you so much when you see other people struggling with their shadows at a superficial level?