# Message From Jesus **URL:** \ **Category:** Spiritual & Metaphysical Matters\ **Created:** [July 26, 2023, 9:29am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370 "2023-07-26T09:29:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3

**Author:** ![coopers](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/coopers/32/468_2.png) [@coopers](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/coopers)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/42 "2023-08-07T16:27:03Z")

The original church refers to those setup by St.Paul. He was an excellent organizer and established many churches in gentiles. My understanding of Christianity is after Jesus, his apostles spread around and teach gospel among non-jew people but Paul is the person who really set up a series of Christian churches among gentiles and that was the original church. Several groups separated from that church after Paul passed away - I forgot their names. Then after that, there is the big split of the original church so two major Christian groups were formed: Roman Catholic and Eastern orthodox. Protestant is split from Catholic afterwards. I think Mormon is also originated from Catholic. I talked to some of them and they claimed they are the real heritage of the original church as they have the “church key” of the original church. I didn’t even know the so called church key exists before they told me but it seems such key really exists after I did some research on line. ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/43 "2023-08-07T16:31:22Z")

> [@coopers](#): > > I talked to some of them and they claimed they are the real heritage of the original church as they have the “church key” of the original church. I’ll give them a very wide berth if I were you…wait! I am you! 🙂 “beware the yeast of the Pharisees” ---

**Author:** ![K.K.33](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/k.k.33/32/1845_2.png) [@K.K.33](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/K.K.33)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/44 "2023-08-07T20:02:52Z")

Well Jesus was not Christian, whileo I believe that he contributed to the formation of Christianity, in ways that we are not even fully aware of. However those mainstream Christianity made him the Son of God, which is just a myth and a sectarian ploy, in my opinion. Undoubtedly, it could have happened that the myth of Jesus Christ is based on the real figure of Jesus. As for the source of the teachings, various sources can be distinguished in my opinion, as it comes to the Jesus: 1) the real Jesus, 2) the mythical Jesus, and as it comes to the Christianity: 3) mainstream Christianity, 4) the real deeper Christianity as a set of essential philosophical, spiritual and psychological teachings live in what I can express as a collective consciousness of the involved part of humanity. All this can be considered as a completely different source and at the same time intersect somewhere. If you have time then I invite you to read, maybe I will suggest something to all of you. I would like to bring up a few things that are not normally brought up… From my thinking the long post came out, very long. I doubted whether to give it in this form. However, on the other hand, I thought that if someone will not be interested in it, they do not have to read it and can scroll through the post or possibly find something that interests them in it. Inserting a long post, does not mean you have to read it. Let me start with the basics from my point of view. For me, Jesus has a primarily spiritual dimension. At my call, praying to Jesus and contemplating Jesus, I have repeatedly opened to positive energies and noticed changes in my thinking and behavior for closer to the positive. Unfortunately, I have no basis for claiming that it was **that real Jesus** with whom I had contact. **I believe that focusing on Jesus in my life has many times fulfilled the role of a gateway to connect with the higher densities of Service to Others** , with the 4th and 5th density especially, I think. When I asked for love and wisdom and defense against the evil spirit and various demonic beings, which I identify mainly with 4D STS, then 4D STO balanced and supported me, through asking Jesus for help. Note that the higher densities are selectively received and perceived by our consciousness and will match our expectations and free will. If one connects with the higher densities of STO, and call Jesus in one’s personal experience Jesus can come to him, even if it is not Jesus. Which doesn’t mean it won’t be a positive entity. Someone will see Jesus due to the fact that it will be so chosen by him, and this being representing Jesus will not forcefully in any way precipitate it so as not to violate the free will, becuase for such entity it is more important to convey love and knowledge and even they don’t really look physical as we are used to in 3D… In general, belief in Jesus and the idea of love and live spirituality behind him is considered by me as very important, because it is an expression of the will of the individual, **who through the faith in this can open himself to contact with the worlds of higher densities of positive polarity. Expressing his will clearly in his faith.** As for the question of Jesus as a historical figure not as only spiritual, by all means, I am inclined to believe that there was someone who developed himself on the spiritual path who the name was Jesus or Yeshua or Yehoshua. As someone who was a seeker and was engaged in metaphysical work, developing and sharing love and knowledge with others, even exploration of areas far beyond Palestine. Adding to the general body of spiritual knowledge and including the development of deeper Christianity (understood by me, as the collective development of consciousness based on a broad cultural and religious perspective, as I briefly described in a previous post: [Message From Jesus - #29 by K.K.33](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/29)). However, this Jesus was in no way a superhuman or exceptional figure. He was like anyone else, learning from others and teaching others. He was a link, out of tens of thousands of other links, seeking and developing spiritually. On the other hand, there is another version of Jesus. Mainstream Jesus Christ. Here I mean this most popular version of Jesus. The famous carpenter who became the messiah. Personally, I may surprise you with this, but I simply see it as the work of the secret services of the ancient world. At its very foundation, **it looks like psy-op and cult formation.** In the creation of various types of sects, such a message is created, where the leader of the group is shown to come from a lower social stratum or to have an ordinary, simple background, even if he/she is a substituted agent. It could be a carpenter, it could be an ordinary housewife, whatever… Then, when these impressions of familiarity and hailing from the “one nest” are inculcated, the **illusion** of uniqueness and anomalousness of leader is created, some **extraordinary ability** to assimilate knowledge and understand reality or connection to God or some spiritual higher source is linked to the sect leader, or just the ability to **perform miracles like in the story about Jesus** … Such records of miracles are no accident. If something is already appearing in important writings, it is intended to evoke a corresponding purpose. And so in this, too, I see the actions of, for example, some Greco-Roman security forces who edited early writings adding stories of miracles to give incredulity to Jesus, to possible further form a cult on such grounds. One more characteristic feature is the status of Jesus Christ as the **Son of God. This is also very sectarian and helps to legitimize the superiority of an individual over other individuals** , and those who are close to the supposed Son of God or are his direct messengers automatically gain a higher status. All this in the future brought the creation of an **ecclesiastical hierarchy that is pure STS** … So to summarize what mainstream Christianity is in my opinion. It is a sect and cult that was created to fuse all those wonderful (really wondrful) ideas like the Egyptian belief in one God or the Greek pursuit of trandescendal love, which I personally recognize as half of the Christianity, this positive half off distortion-free form of Christianity, and get it under control with a single powerful authority, what is the negative part of the story of the mainstream Christianity. Also in this we find references to Mithraism, the practice of bathing in the blood of a bull was only for the chosen ones for initiation, and in Christianity what do we have? We have Baptism for all (not just the elect) and not in the blood of a bull, but in the water, and this already makes the religion **more accessible to the masses, new religion makes the range**. So for it various associations with other spiritual heritages were being prepared. According to my theory, all these references to various religions were meant to attract people throughout the Roman Empire and adjoining states, giving all people something to be interested in and to use for spiritual development and for objective spiritual development - this is the positive part of Christianity. The negative one is that all of this, according to my theory, played out as a **psychological operation by the secret services like some deep state of the Roman Empire, through the establishment of a sect, a cult** of the entity Jesus as the Messiah for the creation of a mass religion under one supervision in the future. When small cult groups began to grow… to make it all look like a grassroots movement, then the moment they became larger and could not be ignored. Subsequent changes could have been made. It’s all a bigger plan and STS has to take its toll. Mainstream Christianity has elements of this valuable teachings, which are links to various other teachings derived from various earlier philosophies, beliefs and rituals of a positive nature. With the ultimate goal of bringing it under control, by the combined political, military and religious power structures. **Important role in this play the Son of God illusion, one man, which narrows down the entire spiritual world suggesting that only through him can you get to heaven.** And when you leave his flock you will be, perhaps even condemned. Since there is only one way to God, those closest to the top of this pyramid on which is the Son of God constitute their prestige and consolidate their power. …At my room on the wall I have a picture of **Jesus the Merciful. I watch it a dozen times a day, maybe even more. An important element of my room, this image is symbolic of the idea of unconditional love. And it is as OK for me.** However, when it comes to mainstream Jesus Christ, who was Son of God died on the cross and rose again… well, for me it is purely a story told for the sake of distraction. No one like that has ever existed in my opinion, as Jesus Christ, in the way he is generally presented to us. Jesus as a symbol and gateway to the Density of Love, that is ok. Jesus or Yeshua, who was a seeker and someone involved in metaphysical work, who worked on his polarity and studied, perhaps influencing his immediate circle that’s ok. However, I reject the mainstream version of Jesus and others close to it. Story about Jesus Christ, a humble carpenter, a young handsome man cuddling sweet lambs, whose teachings remarkably embraced a good portion of the globe, the 2 billion people in the domination-oriented STS reality, and if someone see no trap in it, then someone like this has to be really naive. And he himself (Jesus Christ) at the same time was not intelligent enough to leave behind some of his own writings. And all “his” teachings, they are in fact someone else’s work. To me, this is not very realistic. For me, this official version of Jesus is simply mystification. It is still a matter of years away. How would it look that from the year, let’s say 0, to the adoption of Christianity by Rome in 380, so many years passed and that Christians were persecuted by the Roman Emperors. I believe that the old order simply did not want to accept the new religion that was in the mind of the underground organizations (or the deep state of the Roman Empire), who were interested in **uniting the entire Roman Empire and the surrounding area, under one religion and go on to launch further invasions spreading civilization and removing pagan beliefs.** The Roman emperors and the arrangements there did not want change, including many of Roman citizens. They wanted to preserve the status quo. As for the year around 0 as the birth and later activities of Jesus. Well, I would dismiss that as the beginning of Christianity in general. In my opinion, the beginning was an already crafted sectarian version of beliefs in the messiah and his teachings of this sect took the expression of indoctrination. This involved adopting an irrational belief in Jesus Christ, the messiah who died on the cross. Even if it so happened that it was this positive soul of Jesus/Yeshua and his body that was crucified, I see the whole story around this heavily stretched and crafted for a new cult. Of course, some of these teachings were, as I wrote earlier, positive and collected many important things from other philosophies and religions. Which, however, did not eliminate the negative side and the push for the Christian religion to spread. This is shown, for example, by the various feuds in the background between Christians and Romans or Jews. Christians were not an adapting force to the prevailing miry Roman tradition… **They were not warm gentle beings, guided strictly by STO and surrender to the outside world, without initiating anything that could be misconstrued.** Someone really wanted Christianity to dominate… However, I continue to maintain the **positive sides of Christianity. Such St. Paul, whom I respect** , for example, never writes about Jesus. He writes about God not Jesus. He writes about love, unity between people and evokes the spirit of Christ as a spirit that exists on the other spiritual side, a spirit of a positive nature, with whom he suggests to join together. This corresponds to my own attitude towards Jesus, about whom I wrote at the beginning of this post. It is simply connecting with energy and consciousness from a higher positive dimension and for this process to take place, work on love and unity with others is needed. I suggest turning to Greek philosophy, for example, which can tell you more about positive part of Christianity than the Bible itself… For example, the philosophy of **Plotinus and Neoplatonism** will be very important. At the foundation of his philosophy. Plotinus writes about the the foundation of all existence as the One and according to him it is perfect and simple substance that is unknowable. This corresponds to Ra, which speaks of the Plenum, the One, and that creation is for discovering the unknowable (adding that creation is also the Creator itself). Plotinus says that the further we move away from the One, the more we delve into the illusion. And the more we move towards the One, the more we come out of the illusion. Only One is perfect. Similar to Ra, which says that everything comes from One, and the further we move away from this One, the more distortions and illusions we enter. In turn, as we move out of the illusion and move towards higher Densities, our existence also becomes less distorted, until finally, when we reconnect with the One, we leave all distortions behind. Plotinus speaks of three hypostases: “ **Hypostasis** (plural: hypostases), from the [Greek](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek) ὑπόστασις (_hypóstasis_), is the underlying state or underlying substance and is the fundamental [reality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality) that supports all else. In [Neoplatonism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism) the hypostasis of the [soul](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul), the intellect (_[nous](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nous)_) and “[the one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_(philosophy))” was addressed by [Plotinus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotinus).[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostasis_(philosophy_and_religion)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAnton1977258%E2%80%93271-1) In [Christian theology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_theology), the [Holy Trinity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Trinity) consists of three hypostases: Hypostasis of the [Father](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Father_(Christianity)), Hypostasis of the [Son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Son_(Christianity)), and Hypostasis of the [Holy Spirit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_in_Christianity).[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostasis_(philosophy_and_religion)#cite_note-2)” Source: [Hypostasis (philosophy and religion) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypostasis_(philosophy_and_religion)) So the three hypostases were practically copy-pasted from Plotinus and Neoplatonism to Christian philosophy. And originally the Son of God/Hypostatis of the Son meant Logos. And what’s the point of pushing the famous carpenter here as the physical human being? It does not make sense. And it was never intended to make sense, it was to divert attention and create a cult of the mythical Jesus Christ. And the fact that Christianity, for example, is very much based on ancient philosophies and religions, and is nothing new itself, and is a processing and eventual expansion of that, is actually not surprising, because the development is gradual, and the concept of these already exists ideas, yet is actually very important and really spiritually developing! And to sum up Jesus: as a mainstream version of Jesus Christ, this is nonsense, in my opinion. As an alternative version of Jesus, suggested at least by Q’uo, then I am willing to accept. Also, Jesus as a strictly spiritual being from the higher densities of STO is as acceptable to me as possible. ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 7:39am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/45 "2023-08-08T07:39:38Z")

Thanks for that K.K.33, very interesting to me. Are you familiar with The Rest Is History podcast? They tackle all historical events in great depth, two very talented historians. Luckily they also have a sense of humour, so it’s good listening. So a while back they asked the audience what they want to hear about, and a good amount of people said Jesus, so they did a two part series about Jesus. Here it is: [![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/b/b747085c03142d6e6891c4dfeb166f8161f3d19b.jpeg "287. Jesus Christ: The Mystery") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_SrIk6W0Ig) [![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/a/a50d502daab86dfba6838f4da0cc45cb00c6f782.jpeg "288. Jesus Christ: The History") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bLTl26h7pI) ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 11:03am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/46 "2023-08-08T11:03:00Z")

I don’t think it’s entirely possible for anyone raised in Christianity to approach this Jesus conundrum without bias and deep seated emotions, because of how imaginative, open, fertile and innocent a child’s mind is. Children are immersed in these stories, and they make deep impressions on the psyche. Even in adulthood, even for those who are secular, these stories are always lurking somewhere in the subconscious. So for myself I had to “go back in” so to speak, to make sense of some things. Joel Goldsmith helped with that, and of course Alan Watts. Today I can appreciate and enjoy how so many of his teachings compliment the Eastern teachings - Buddhism / Hinduism / Zen / Daoism. ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 11:49am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/47 "2023-08-08T11:49:58Z")

> [@Quid](#): > > The ‘core’ of the teaching can be found in the “Lord’s prayer”. I feel that the core teaching is this: “I and my Father are one” And of course it’s not difficult to see how such a statement in a primitive and tribal society can cause consternation, confusion and even offence. Or as it is phrased in the Nag Hammadi scrolls: “The living God dwells in you and you dwell in him.” ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 12:09pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/48 "2023-08-08T12:09:22Z")

One lingering mystery, where’s the mention of reincarnation? ---

**Author:** ![Patrick](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/patrick/32/5_2.png) [@Patrick](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Patrick)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/49 "2023-08-08T13:11:31Z")

All mentions of reincarnation were removed by the council of nicaea. ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/50 "2023-08-08T14:17:06Z")

Do you have a reliable source for this, Patrick? ---

**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 2:19pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/51 "2023-08-08T14:19:36Z")

> [@Passer-by](#): > > I feel that the core teaching is this: > “I and my Father are one” > And of course it’s not difficult to see how such a statement in a primitive and tribal society can cause consternation, confusion and even offence. > “The living God dwells in you and you dwell in him.” You mean Gospel of Thomas. > **[Gospel of Thomas Saying 3 - GospelThomas.com](http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/gospelthomas3.html)** > > Gospel of Thomas Saying 3 at GospelThomas.com: Collected Commentary on the Gospel of Thomas. Similar statement can be found in Luke 17:21 Yes it’s ‘difficult’ to be fully understood by a society wherein they’re used to view “God is outside of themselves and far away”. Thus even nowadyas the verse that they often quote is: “No one comes to the Father except through me (Jesus)” (John 14:6) At the very least “Forgiveness” is much simpler to understand and practiced. And according to Ra’s L01 it’s enough to activate the heart chakra and make the practitioner graduate towards 4th density positive. A recent Quo session discussed in detail on forgiveness and “love your enemy”. > **[May 28, 2023 - Homecoming meditation - L/L Research](https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/2023/0528)** > > Group question: Is loving your enemies a conscious choice in the moment, or is it a state of being that is arrived at after managing to fully open the heart? Can you please speak to how we can come to love anyone that we feel difficult to love? Plus the act of forgiveness is also an expression of “non attachment”. > [@Passer-by](#): > > I don’t think it’s entirely possible for anyone raised in Christianity to approach this Jesus conundrum without bias and deep seated emotions, because of how imaginative, open, fertile and innocent a child’s mind is. > Children are immersed in these stories, and they make deep impressions on the psyche. Yours truly is among the example of that. My first day in catholic school is filled with a trauma of seeing a gigantic statue of a half naked man with expression of agony nailed upon a cross. ---

**Author:** ![Patrick](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/patrick/32/5_2.png) [@Patrick](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Patrick)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/52 "2023-08-08T15:52:01Z")

> [@Passer-by](#): > > Do you have a reliable source for this, Patrick? This one is from the Confederation. But there are also multiple accounts from other sources all over the Internet. > [@](#): > > [May 19, 1985](https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/1985/0519) > > #### N > > In relationship to Amy’s question. There was a consideration for a thought about the harvest in that before the fifth ecumenical council in Nicaea, called Nicaean, Constantinople, in, I think it was 553 AD, there was much talk about reincarnation and even in Christ’s teaching—at the Fifth Ecumenical Council it was deleted from the bible. Has this affected the harvest and how great has been the effect on those who would have considered reincarnation in the Western world? > > #### L/Leema > > I am L/Leema, and am aware of your query, my brother. We find that the concept of reincarnation is a concept which allows an entity to view with a greater scope the forces which form one’s present experience. Yet, when this concept is absent within an entity’s thinking, those forces yet remain in motion and the opportunities that these forces provide an entity are yet viable. Thus, as a concept in itself, it is of small value in the actual process of evolution. Those entities who were of the authority or upper echelon levels of the church at that time felt that entities would work more diligently within a lifetime if it were not known that future lifetimes were available to complete work left undone in the present lifetime. Though this is a choice which is a basic infringement upon the free will of others, it has had some effect in the causing of entities to work with that desired diligence. ---

**Author:** ![coopers](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/coopers/32/468_2.png) [@coopers](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/coopers)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/53 "2023-08-08T15:52:46Z")

yeah, I know that. When one of my Mormon friends told me that their religion holds the FULL absolute truth while other religions don’t, I replied: you know there is only one type of religion that will say that they hold full absolute truth. That religion is called cult. She and I are not friends anymore after that. ---

**Author:** ![coopers](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/coopers/32/468_2.png) [@coopers](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/coopers)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/54 "2023-08-08T16:07:05Z")

> [@K.K.33](#): > > **Such St. Paul, whom I respect** , for example, never writes about Jesus. He writes about God not Jesus. He writes about love, unity between people and evokes the spirit of Christ as a spirit that exists on the other spiritual side that doesn’t sound right. Paul wrote a significant portion in his letters saying that Jesus Christ died for the sin of all people even he himself was innocent. That’s the major concept of Christianity. ---

**Author:** ![K.K.33](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/k.k.33/32/1845_2.png) [@K.K.33](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/K.K.33)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/55 "2023-08-08T17:20:46Z")

I once read such a study: Paul’s Necessary Sin, where the author introduces several concepts. The first is that, according to the author (T. Aschworth), Paul writes that every person is “subject to” the “original sin” and it is to be brought into living in the flesh and separated from God and the higher spiritual level. In order to free oneself from this, faith is important. This “original sin” is similar to what Ra says when he talks about the veil and illusion of living in the physical 3rd Density. And to get out of it it is important to learn to use faith. He then talks about the cross and shows that the cross is actually a metaphor for our own transformation. The idea is that one must, in a sense, “crucify oneself.” Our physical body is a certain temple of change (and this is where it all plays out) and that through properly undertaken self-discipline and friction between choosing good or evil, allows us to grow spiritually. The author of the book suggests that Paul’s cross is a certain metaphor. And it made me think hard about the real event as if the physical crucifixion of some Jesus had taken place. Rather, there was none of that. This can be compared to Q’uo’s words suggesting that work begins with individual efforts and ends with individual efforts (all within the individual), and that the key to proceeding in spiritual development is the Choice, the choice between service to self (negative) and service to others (positive). Also according to the author of this study, Christ, is a form of energy, spirit and consciousness that expresses itself especially through love. Wherever there is love there is also Christ. Christ is a spiritual ideal who lives beyond selfishness and physicality, and he is sort of outside the circle of normal ordinary people. This also suggests that Jesus Christ was never a physical living being, a human being. I am sorry, becuase, I should say right away that what St. Paul wrote is a far from writing about Jesus as a physical man, and that it is solely my opinion, as I interpret it that way partly inspired by the work of others and party my own interpretation. And as for how St. Paul is interpreted by the Church, that’s something else. And I don’t think you are wrong in what you wrote. I should have been more precise, and I admit my mistake. My theory is simply that the New Testament, including Paul’s letters are simply edited and various impurities for the purpose of deception are added, and I point out that this is only my opinion and an element of my own theory, which I presented in my previous post in this thread. ---

**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 3:24am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/56 "2023-08-09T03:24:15Z")

> [@Passer-by](#): > > The possibility of Jesus (and maybe some disciples after his death…I’ll get to that later) reaching India / Tibet / elsewhere is quite an intriguing idea to me, because the possibility then exists that he awakened in the Far East during his “missing years”, and then returned to his homeland subsequently to start his ministry. Quo specifically mentioned a specific place in India/Pakistan (depending on your today’s political view 😉 as the final embarkation point before Jesus embark on his ministry. > [@](#): > > Gradually, as he began to mature into an adult person, it came to him that he must travel and so he began to walk upon a path that was as varied as his sense of each day’s shape. He set off upon a pilgrimage, although the one known as Jesus certainly did not think in terms of such but rather simply that he was called to the road. And guided by spirit and silence, he walked through parts of Africa and parts of India. (We have difficulty using place names with this instrument as she has no familiarity with those regions.) > > Braving hunger and extremes of weather, the one known as Jesus walked many a weary mile and visited the campfires and the caves and the holy places of those who thought along the same lines as those he was taught and those who did not, learning always, accumulating wisdom, and sifting it, winnowing it, and gradually coming into a fuller and fuller sense of who he was, not as the one who had learned these things but as the one who the witness of the process of that learning and its tumbling about and settling into those patterns of thought that he found truly helpful. > > It was during this phase that the one known as Jesus gradually became more and more aware of the shape of his future ministry. We give this instrument the image of mountains and sweet water and the name Kashmir, as the furthest that this entity walked before he began the journey, not precisely home, but the journey towards what this very dedicated entity felt was his future and his chosen ministry. > > While this entity had been traveling, one of this entity’s relatives, the one [known] to this instrument as John the Baptist, had begun his own ministry. Feeling under a real compulsion to purify himself and to allow to fall from himself all things that were not holy, the one known as John began to attract followers to himself with a very simple and direct message, the message of prophets from time immemorial: return to the Creator, cease from error, and serve only the highest and best. > **[December 6, 2003 - Saturday meditation - L/L Research](https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/2003/1206)** > > This week, in the spirit of the season that we are entering, we would like some information on the entity that we know of as Jesus the Christ, Jesus of Nazareth. We would appreciate any information about this entity or his incarnation very much. There has been some ‘possibilities’ that Jesus returned to the same area after the ordeal in Judea, and somehow John (the disciples not the baptist) knew this and also went there as you’ve mentioned. So yes, Jesus learned from many sources / tradition too, similar to Siddhartha during his seeking journey. To me this make the case of ‘one original church’ became more and more irrelevant. ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 6:49am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/57 "2023-08-09T06:49:49Z")

> [@Patrick](#): > > This one is from the Confederation. But there are also multiple accounts from other sources all over Thanks for this Patrick, I haven’t read too many Quo sessions, just here and there over the years. And I’ve seen this metioned in places online, I just wish someone could provide access to the official historical documents, that would really help. Thanks again everyone participating for such a wonderful conversation. I’m still conversing from my phone, haven’t gotten to the PC yet, so I’m a little all over the place, like a good treasure hunt. 🙂 ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 9:14am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/58 "2023-08-09T09:14:14Z")

This morning on my beach walk, I was thinking of Luke 9:60 which I mentioned earlier, when Jesus said “let the dead bury the dead”…and I remembered there’s a similar incident in the zen literature. This is one of the anecdotes about Chao-Chou (778-897?) in the book The Golden Age of Zen: > [@The Golden Age of Zen](#): > > At a funeral procession of one of his monks, as the Abbot joined the procession, he remarked, “What a long procession of dead bodies follows the wake of a single living person!” 😄 ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 9:32am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/59 "2023-08-09T09:32:34Z")

> [@Quid](#): > > Quo specifically mentioned a specific place in India/Pakistan (depending on your today’s political view 😉 as the final embarkation point before Jesus embark on his ministry. Oh…my…word! Thanks for that Quid…the things swirling in my mind right now! It never really occured to me to do a search on “Jesus” among the confederation channelings (other than Ra)… …incidently…it also didn’t occur to me as a child while I was staring at a picture in my children’s bible of Jonah writing at his desk by candlelight inside the fish, with a humongous bookshelf behind him, how he managed go get all that furniture inside the fish, not to mention how he kept his matches dry go light the candle! 🫢 > [@Quid](#): > > Yours truly is among the example of that. > My first day in catholic school is filled with a trauma of seeing a gigantic statue of a half naked man with expression of agony nailed upon a cross. This gave me a good chuckle! ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 10:55am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/60 "2023-08-09T10:55:13Z")

> [@Quid](#): > > To me this make the case of ‘one original church’ became more and more irrelevant. I’ll toast to that! Which brings us back to Krishnamurti’s [little joke](https://www.jkrishnamurti.org/about-dissolution-speech): > [@Krishnamurti](#): > > You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. > > The friend said to the devil, ‘What did that man pick up?’ He picked up a piece of Truth,’ said the devil. ‘That is a very bad business for you, then,’ said his friend. ‘Oh, not at all,’ the devil replied, ‘I am going to let him organize it.’ ---

**Author:** ![Patrick](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/patrick/32/5_2.png) [@Patrick](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Patrick)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 11:35am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/61 "2023-08-09T11:35:00Z")

> [@Passer-by](#): > > I just wish someone could provide access to the official historical documents, that would really help. There may not be any “official” written documents of this. After all, by this action they wished to erase this from history. [Previous page](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370.md?page=2) [Next page](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370.md?page=4)