# Message From Jesus

**URL:** <https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370>\
**Category:** Spiritual & Metaphysical Matters\
**Created:** [July 26, 2023, 9:29am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370 "2023-07-26T09:29:28Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 17

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 8:25am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/323 "2023-09-23T08:25:22Z")

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The “triad concept” of course predates Christianity…

 ![Screenshot_20230923_101816_Facebook](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/4/47781c5b217f673d87042a73782192159ddcb4c9.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20230923_101953_Facebook](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/7/7f0475400aad92453a2e1c23fa4fd0b42e1fd426.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20230923_102105_Facebook](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/d/d9c615d538315062eb3fc79bfde4993a12692e55.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20230923_102205_Facebook](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/8/81824a927855517f304f6bc060489333df28f4c7.jpeg)  
 ![Screenshot_20230923_102239_Facebook](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/e/ec90a5e04f9c4a7e0f677d4675f1b37c7424b89c.jpeg)

Sorry for the messiness above, but it wouldn’t allow me to copy, so I took some screenshots.

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 8:41am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/324 "2023-09-23T08:41:17Z")

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Well, let me put it this way, they didn’t become “top dog” by playing nice… fear was their weapon, for centuries and centuries and centuries.

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 10:14am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/325 "2023-09-23T10:14:48Z")

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[![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/3/3c5f874b8474c5ad2ddedebd6779df07d1ec0f7b.jpeg "George Carlin "Religion"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_74QgKTa8Nc)

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 12:28pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/326 "2023-09-23T12:28:20Z")

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I only learned recently of the role of the Catholic church in the Rwanda genocide.

> **[Pope Francis asks for forgiveness for church's role in Rwanda genocide](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/20/pope-francis-asks-for-forgiveness-for-churchs-role-in-rwanda-genocide)**
>
> Pontiff acknowledges some Catholic priests and nuns ‘succumbed to hatred and violence’ by taking part in 1994 killings

I think that’s a diabolical institution…

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 9:04am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/327 "2023-09-25T09:04:56Z")

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> [@Quid](#):
>
> You are not your bodies. You are not your intellect.

Another good book on the workings of the “ego”…or rather…“getting out of your own way” as I prefer to call it, is this one:

> **[The Secret of Secrets: Your Key... by Andersen, Uell S.](https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Secrets-Your-Subconscious-Power/dp/0879801344)**
>
> The Secret of Secrets: Your Key to Subconscious Power \[Andersen, Uell S.\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Secret of Secrets: Your Key to Subconscious Power

The audiobook can be listened to for free:

[![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/8/871db5cae2a7b91b7d39c05469cf474c3d05ea36.jpeg "The SECRET of SECRETS - NEW FULL 9 hours Audiobook by Uell S. ANDERSEN") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeNNxbg0bn0)

> [@](#):
>
> U. S. Andersen calls it THE SECRET OF SECRETS because, strangely enough, it is within each man and yet can set him free. It is a secret that is making itself known over the face of the earth. It has become the common meeting ground of all religions. Sri Aurobindo says “It is the one secure and all reconciling truth which is the very foundation of the universe.” It is this truth and its application to your own life that is the theme of THE SECRET OF SECRETS.
> 
> There is in man, below the level of his consciousness, a vaster mind, a mind of enormous power and knowledge, a mind universal in scope, common to all men but exclusive to none. U. S. Andersen furnishes ample proof that this mind exists and that you can tap it. Wise men have learned that the human mind is a magnificent machine with an infinite reservoir of power still untapped by the mass of men.
> 
> The magic moment when you learn to link with this power is the moment when the secret of abundance becomes yours . . . the spiritual equivalent of having a money tree in your own back yard.

••••••••••••

> [@Ralph Waldo Emerson](#):
>
> This inner field of life has been given many names throughout the centuries. For Laozi it is the Tao. For Plato it is the Good and the Beautiful. Aristotle calls it Being, Plotinus the Infinite, Jesus the kingdom of Heaven within. In Judaism it is known as Ein Sof.
> 
> Whatever it may be named, it is the same universal, unbounded field of consciousness that rests within each of us, waiting to be experienced and awakened - the same universal field of intelligence that gives rise to nature itself.

And the New Thought writers are also a good resource:

> **[List of New Thought writers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Thought_writers)**
>
> This is a list of New Thought writers, who have written significant primary works related to New Thought. New Thought is also commonly referred to by such names as the "Law of Attraction" or "Higher Thought".

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:50pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/328 "2023-10-04T12:50:58Z")

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So I mentioned earlier that I was rereading [Life in the World Unseen](https://www.amazon.com/Life-World-Unseen-Anthony-Borgia/dp/0963643509) by Anthony Borgia. Remember he’s the channel for the remorseful orthodox Catholic priest who was given permission to come through as a channel to “correct” things he had written while still on earth.

So after I finished my second read of it, I checked to see if there were more books by Anthony Borgia, and found this one:

> **[Facts: ~ more spirit communications from Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson - Kindle...](https://www.amazon.com/Facts-spirit-communications-Monsignor-Robert-ebook/dp/B08QQ4V15W)**
>
> Facts: ~ more spirit communications from Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson - Kindle edition by Borgia, Anthony. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while...

He never mentions Jesus in Life in the World Unseen (he just voiced some frustration with the state of earth beliefs), he left it for this book. In this book he tackles the confusion around “the Nazarene” and elucidate some things in the New Testament, and organised religion in general.

The context matters here, this is a guy who died in 1914 and came through as a channel in 1954 via someone who was a very close friend when he was still on earth.

I’m just going to post some excerpts from the book as it relates to this thread, in case it is of benefit to anyone - I’m pretty sure Jesus and the bible (Old & New Testament) is still a stumbling block to many…

> [@Facts: ~ more spirit communications from Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson](#):
>
> They That Mourn
> 
> IT has been remarked of previous writings that I have made no mention whatever of the great soul whom the world knows as Jesus of Nazareth, and that seemingly, as far as I am concerned, he might never have existed.
> 
> My abstention from all such mention so far has been deliberate. It was fully intended that such should be the case from the moment that we set down our first word in these accounts of my experiences in the spirit world. But the time has now come when it would be profitable to speak not only of the Nazarene, as he is so often called. But also to discuss the book, or some parts of it at least, in which are chronicled a few of the teachings, which he gave forth during his short life on earth.
> 
> For many hundreds of earthly years the New Testament has been claimed to be the inspired word of God. Opinions differ upon this one point, but there is still greater diversity of opinion upon much that is contained in the gospels. So wide is the latter divergence that literally hundreds of different Christian religions and religious sects have sprung up all over the earth world, each professing to be a true religion, if not the ‘true’ religion.
> 
> Some individuals go still further and claim that absolute belief in the contents of the book is itself sufficient for the ‘salvation’ of the soul, and that without that belief the soul is lost, condemned for all eternity to remain not only without the gates of heaven, but at a very great distance from them.
> 
> One religious denomination in particular proclaims itself to be the sole depository of truth upon earth, with an infallible interpretation of the gospels. How, then, do we in the spirit world regard the New Testament? Surely, it might be said, you in the spirit world have the opportunity of ascertaining the truth upon all such matters, especially upon the various texts in the gospels over which so much controversy has arisen, or which are still obscure in their meaning.
> 
> Certainly we have the means in the spirit world of getting at the truth in such a case. But suppose we were to give the truth, should we not be charged with giving just another interpretation and so adding to the confusion that already exists?
> 
> Should we not also be suspected of trying to found yet another religion upon earth that already contains far, far too many? Finally, why should any interpretation’ that I might offer to my friends on earth be considered the right interpretation?
> 
> It is a risk that is worth taking. In spite, therefore, of what one Church emphatically teaches, namely, that private judgment in such matters is heartily to be condemned, I would ask my friends who have followed my writings thus far to view what I have to say in the light of spiritual truths.
> 
> I would ask them to cast from their minds, at least for the moment, but better still for all time, such doctrines and creeds as they already possess, and to come with me upon a pleasant journey whereon we will explore some parts and passages of the New Testament.
> 
> We will not essay any new interpretation. We will merely take some passages of the gospels and see how they compare with the truth as it exists in the spirit world.
> 
> ‘What is this?’ I can hear someone declare. Are you suggesting that Jesus of Nazareth did not teach the ‘truth?’ Most emphatically I am not suggesting such a thing. He told the absolute truth, but it remained for those who humbly professed to be his followers in after years to do just the opposite.
> 
> What has been set down in the four gospels is but a tiny fraction of the great body of teachings that were originally given forth. They have been inaccurately set down they were not - and are not - the inspired word of God. They have been mistranslated, misinterpreted, suffered interpolations and distortions, and they have been tampered with until it seems more than remarkable if a vestige of the truth can remain.
> 
> From this chaos, there have arisen an immense variety of dogmas and ritualistic practices that have no bearing whatever upon the spiritual progression of a single soul. And in the very center of this distortion stands Jesus of Nazareth, who gave the truth in the first instance, and who, through the operation of that catalogue of accidents, which I have just enumerated as befalling the Scriptures, now finds himself elevated into the position of God Himself.
> 
> To Jesus, in virtue of his deified position, are attributed the most outrageously impossible functions and attributes. His life on earth is almost one of the major ‘mysteries’ of the Christian religion because he is God Himself, who has come down to earth to live there as man.
> 
> The whole doctrine of the incarnation is one of the most fantastic inventions of the theologians of past centuries on earth - to take just one instance from many of how the mind of man can build up strange mysteries concerning the spirit world where, in good truth, no mysteries exist.
> 
> The laws that govern the spirit world are not complex laws that none can understand. There are many things in spirit life, which we cannot understand yet, just as there are many things upon earth, which cannot yet be understood.
> 
> But just as you have great minds on earth who can - and will - eventually solve such mysteries, so in the spirit world are there still greater minds who can - and will - provide an answer to our riddles.
> 
> At the moment, our state of mental evolution has not sufficiently advanced for us to be capable of understanding were an explanation to be given to us. But with all such matters we can see plainly the reason for some law, or truth, or whatever it may be. We are not treated to a farrago of words that collectively possess not one grain of meaning or sense, only to be told that it is a ‘mystery,’ or something that under Divine Providence we are not meant to know.
> 
> When we come to discuss the New Testament, we shall find that a great deal of what it contains has no meaning whatever when viewed in the light of our knowledge of the spirit world and of spirit life in general. We are not here concerned with what may have been set down in the original documents, as to whether we are considering it is mistranslated. A reference to originals will get us no further forward.
> 
> In setting down these records, the writers of them simply filled in any hiatus that might have occurred in their work by thoughts and ideas entirely their own. Some of these interpolations - indeed - a great many of them claimed as the sayings of Jesus. None in the spirit world know positively whether any particular dictum—provided that it makes sense—can be of the authorship of Jesus because we know that he was himself under such 19supremely careful guardianship from the spirit world that no errors would have been permitted to him in the delivering of the spiritual teachings.
> 
> The untruth is not of Jesus, but of his chronicles and subsequent transcribers. It happens, then, that when we try to give some clear meaning to what obviously sounds preposterous as it stands, we find that the sense of the original has been so altered in many cases that words, in their ordinary, everyday use, have almost ceased to have any meaning. Theologians have become adept in twisting words beyond all recognition of their true import. With the adoption of such practices, there is no limit to the number of meanings or interpretations that can be accorded to any simple sentence of words.
> 
> An impediment would seem to arise from the belief that the Scriptures are the inspired word of God. Therefore, it follows that however much we should feel that a certain text is wrong as it stands if we take the words in their rational meaning, there must be a correct interpretation if one could only discover what it was. This the theologians have brazenly and presumptuously done. I say ‘presumptuously’ because in so many instances they profess to know and declaim the precise ‘will of God.’
> 
> What causes perhaps the widest departure from the truth is the work of interpolators that has been carried out through the whole length of the four gospels. When those of us who have some acquaintance with the gospels arrive in the spirit world, we can see so much that is in complete and total contradiction to so much that was rigorously upheld by us when we were incarnate. This revelation may be a shock to some of us. It is a shock, however, that we can soon overcome! A knowledge of spiritual truths and the experience of the life we live here in these realms are sufficient at once to demonstrate clearly what is a precise statement of incontrovertible fact appearing in the gospels and what is pure fiction.
> 
> The misadventures which the Scriptures have suffered at the hands of the recorders, transcribers and translators have given rise to the large company of theologians who have strenuously endeavored to make spiritual sense of what is utterly meaningless. Controversies have occurred where in some cases acute minds have perceived the truth, proclaimed it, have been branded as heretics by their brothers in religion, have been condemned, and finally have been ceremoniously deprived of their earthly lives.
> 
> Such a vast structure of mystery and obscuration has been built around the Scriptures in 20the fantastic interpretation of them as to provide the earth world with scores of ritualistic practices and ceremonies as well as obscure creeds and dogmas, all of which, the earth is taught, are collectively or individually necessary for the ‘salvation’ of the soul.
> 
> Instead of making the spirit world and its laws, and the process of getting into it, a matter of plain, sensible fact, to be understood in the same sensible way in which you understand your ordinary functions on earth, the spiritual teachers of earth have circumscribed the whole subject with such enigmas and involutions that religion has become, as it were, a separate part of life on earth.
> 
> The very act of ‘dying’ is the operation of a natural law. By its operation, man casts off his physical body, which has served him for his life on earth. He then finds himself in the spirit world, there to be resident for all time. It is the normal, natural outcome of his earthly life. It is inescapable for all persons without exception, of high degree or low. It was never intended, under the dispensation that has provided the whole scheme of life on the earth-plane and in the spirit world, that the spirit world should be regarded by the incarnate as some fearful and frightening unknown destination for which all on earth are bound and from which no one has ever returned, or ever will return, to recount what has befallen him after he has left the earth world.
> 
> The spirit world has been wrapped in a deadly silence therefore, a silence which must forever remain unbroken. It is small wonder that so many of the dwellers of earth are terrified at the prospect of leaving it at their dissolution. In the meantime, to try to alleviate this fear, the Churches give voice to inexplicable utterances exhorting their followers to have ‘faith,’ and to cast themselves upon the mercy of God. And the great book that should have been such a treasure of facts concerning life in both our worlds, yours and mine, has been so mishandled by those who have claim - its custodians - as to offer very little light upon matters so important to all people.
> 
> What we have just set down are one or two observations, which I thought it expedient to make before we undertake to consider some passages from the New Testament.
> 
> To these remarks I would add that we pursue a direct course, so to speak, but rather consider such passages as deal with a particular feature of spirit life or with spirit truths in general.
> 
> Once again, I would say that we are not here concerned with what may or may not appear in the original documents or in others of an early date, but 21only what appears in the printed books of this present moment of your time. Whatever theologians may know of the original is of little or no concern to the ordinary man. He wants plain facts in such a case, facts that are readily accessible, and, moreover, facts that are stated in terms that he can easily understand, not in words which state one thing but which, by the tortuous ways of theologians, are made to signify exactly the opposite.
> 
> In the chapter in which is set down the famous Sermon on the Mount, we find the sermon opens with a series of statements, each prefixed by the word blessed, and which are known as the beatitudes. Let us together examine one of them: Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted. How? Wherein lies the blessing?
> 
> Incalculable millions of people on earth have undergone the crushing experience of bereavement. To those who have experienced it, it can be crushing. The loved one is gone; the voice that was so well known is silent, and seemingly silent forever. Nothing can fill the desolate blank that is caused by the departure for an unknown destination of that cherished soul. That is a doubtful blessing, to say the least, which requires such sorrow and sadness to call it down upon one. Or is it that the comfort is so sublime, so soothing to the troubled mind, a spiritual experience of such beauty, that it is well worth our while to lose some dear friend or relation merely to experience it? That would seem too nonsensical to be worthy of a moment’s serious thought.
> 
> Again we could ask: wherein lies the comfort? The comfort offered by ‘faith’ in some religious system, perhaps?
> 
> It is customary in some cases, where the mourners are of a simple turn of mind, for them to say that it is God’s will, and that He has taken their lost one. But yet they cannot understand why God should take him; for what purpose, especially if accident or illness has cut short the earthly life in its earlier years? So that the average person confronted with bereavement would like to perceive just where is the blessing in his mourning, and whence comes the comfort, for, he will tell you earnestly from the depths of his deep sorrow, he can perceive neither the blessing comfort—and it is comfort he so urgently needed—in his moment of desolation.
> 
> The theologian will find a great deal in those words, blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted, but they will be mostly empty words for he cannot answer the questions put to him as to whence the blessing and the comfort.
> 
> I can speak from my own experience when upon earth. When I was in the presence of some soul distraught with bereavement, the words of comfort I could give were few and seemed hollow. Indeed, what was there, out of a great fund of theological knowledge, so called, that I could offer to a soul in such distress? What real fact could I present?
> 
> That sufferer in sadness wanted to know so much that I was powerless to answer from the Church’s teachings. The best I could do on innumerable occasions was to try to strengthen the friend in his faith; to offer the hope that prayers, coupled with the powerful intercession of the Church, would be bound to avail, and that the departed soul would be ultimately released from the pains of purgatory - and so on, with a deal more upon the same empty barren lines.
> 
> Always was there a feeling of the silence of the tomb. But it was - and is - a silence that is imposed by people on earth who regard the very thought of death of the physical body as morbid. To say from the pulpit or the sanctuary blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted to a congregation that includes just one mourner who is in dire need of comfort but cannot obtain it, is to give demonstration that there is something fundamentally wrong somewhere.
> 
> It has been suggested by a theologian of the Church that the person who is here blessed is he who mourns for his ‘sins.’ Could there ever be a greater travesty, a wilder distortion, a worse corruption of such a plain statement of fact as that the mourner shall be comforted?
> 
> Here at the very outset of one of the foremost books upon earth, in the very opening chapters, is the clue, one might almost say, to the whole work. What of death? It is nothing. But thousands upon thousands of people upon earth will at some time or another mourn the loss of their friends or family, and thus will the distress of sorrow be cast upon many who can find no reason, who can see no good purpose why such sorrow - and such crushing sorrow - as that of the mourner should ever come to pass.
> 
> Many an overwrought soul has asked. ‘Why does God allow it?’ They have a poor estimation of what they have been taught to believe is Divine Providence. The providence in this case is hopelessly absent. Even if, as some last hope, they turn to the New Testament, there they will find words, which they fail to understand, or understanding their plain meaning, will wonder where they are to find the fulfillment of them. They read that they will be comforted, but merely reading the words and trusting to some elusive spiritual 23experience to relieve their sorrow is of little or no value in such case.
> 
> The sorrow’s intensity will swamp all other emotions and serve but to aggravate the sorrow by the hopelessness of obtaining relief.
> 
> Now, lest my friends should say that I have exaggerated the matter, let me assure them that I have not done so. When I was on earth, there were many occasions; such as will occur with any minister of the Church of whatever denomination, when a sorrowing soul has come for spiritual help and guidance.
> 
> The whole body of teachings which Jesus gave in those far-off days was concerned with a two-fold theme: spiritual guidance for people on earth founded upon absolute facts of spirit life and spirit laws and some account of spirit laws and their operation with full details of the facts of spirit life.
> 
> What is to be read upon the latter subject in the New Testament is but the sorriest fraction of what was originally delivered to his listeners by that great teacher. The larger proportion of those facts were unrecorded. The remainder have been so abridged and distorted, as well as undergoing unauthentic interpolations, they have been so mistranslated and have had cast upon them the wildest and nonsensical ‘interpretations’ that the whole book must now be treated with the greatest caution as to what is exact spiritual truth and what is not. The very ‘miracles’ that were performed by Jesus are demonstrations of the use of psychic faculties under precise and undisputed superintendence of elevated souls from the spirit world.
> 
> Even these have been transmogrified into the acts of divine being, who was in fact God Himself, and to whom therefore, all things were possible, even to ‘raising the dead.’
> 
> The whole phrase of blessed are they that mourn, in its present form, is an isolated statement of fact. It is, in very truth, but the text of a whole sermon, as are the remaining ‘beatitudes.’ As it stands, it belongs nowhere. As a theme for a complete discourse, it becomes a title of supreme Importance to every soul who is born upon earth, as was meant. The meaning is clear to us here in the spirit world, it should have been clear to us when we were on the earth-plane. It would have been clear to us had the full text been set down as it was originally delivered. Even if the bare substance of what was said had been recorded, a splendid result would have been achieved.
> 
> Orthodoxy, for hundreds of years, has been ignoring the true meaning of these words, fastening upon them grotesque interpretations to what is a simple statement of truth. Let the theologian search as far and as deeply as he will, he can find no means within the circumscribe orbit of his theology for demonstrating the truth of the assertion that comfort shall be given to the mourner. What discover among the Church’s creeds and dogmas that will bring that comfort? Faith, or the submission to the will of God? Will either of these afford the slightest comfort? But in place of vague and empty assurances, the truth of spirit laws and their operation will bring immense comfort the comfort must he sought.
> 
> It was never intended that the two worlds, you and ours, should be treated as two worlds apart, never having at any time, communication with each other. Why should not our two worlds hold regular and natural converse with each other? That intercommunication does exist, has always existed, and, moreover, will always exist. It may have been - and is - carried on by the comparative few, that is true, but that is the loss to the majority.
> 
> This Intercommunication is one of the true blessings conferred upon both worlds by the Great Mind that has the ordering of such things.
> 
> People speak freely and loosely of the will of God because loved ones have gone down into the grave (as they think), and are thenceforth silent. What of the sorrow of those they have left behind them on earth? It is the will of God, then, that such suffering should come upon them. What an infamous imputation it is to the Father of Heaven that He should deliberately plan matters in this universe in such a clumsy way that vast unhappiness should thus be caused throughout the earth!
> 
> We, in the spirit world, may know little of the will of God, but at least we know what He would never do. He would never cause suffering, of any nature whatsoever, to any single living creature, whether upon your earth or in the spirit world. From the Father of Heaven can come only that which is good and that which is for the happiness of humanity.
> 
> Every soul born upon earth must pass through the portal of ‘death’ before he can take up permanent residence in the spirit world. But with his thus passing to the spirit world with the death of the physical body, the natural and usual circumstances are that others should be left behind to continue their earthly lives until the time comes for them also to pass into these lands. It was not intended that an impregnable barrier of silence should be erected between 25the people who have passed into the spirit world and the people who are still upon earth.
> 
> The means have always existed whereby a natural and normal and happy intercourse between the two worlds should forever be enjoyed by the inhabitants of both worlds. If people in their dullness and stupidity, or in their blindness and stubbornness, wish to cast aside the greatest blessings that a wise dispensation has for their comfort, they have no one but themselves to blame for their consequent sorrow. But so many of the minds of the earth world regard the very thought of direct communication with the two worlds as rubbish, not proven, unhealthy, morbid, and even plain madness - according to their great wisdom.
> 
> The orthodox Churches uphold them in any objection, which they may bring forward. So long as it is an objection it will be sustained. At the same time, they will uphold the New Testament, every word of it, even that the mourner shall be comforted, though they have not the faintest notion what the words mean, or understanding, in any way, what the words might mean. They cannot conceive how the comfort is to be afforded, and they are certainly not in any position to provide it.
> 
> When Jesus spoke those words, he was making a declaration of absolute truth, and he then proceeded to develop his theme upon the true facts of spiritual laws. He saw about him in those far away times the same such bereavement as can be witnessed at this very day of earthly time. Humanity has not changed in that respect.
> 
> There was - and always will be - sorrow at the departure of a friend or relative for the spirit world just so long as human affections endure. Human affections have their rewards, they also have their sufferings, and none so poignant the transition of a loved one.
> 
> Jesus observed this natural state of things about him, His teaching upon this particular occasion, among many of a similar description, provided the one satisfactory answer to that particular problem of human suffering and sadness. He was not content with merely making the plain statement that the mourner should be comforted, but he told his listeners how the mourner could find his comfort. And the means so readily at hand were not ‘faith’ or submission to the will of God, but the plain facts of communication between the two worlds and how it could be accomplished.
> 
> Who was there better qualified to speak upon such a subject than was Jesus himself? No one, for he practiced exactly what he preached. His own 26psychic faculties had been developed during a long period of years under careful guidance from the spirit world. He was able to tell his hearers that death is not the overwhelming tragedy that the folk on earth have always thought it to be. The earth world was in full possession of innumerable blessings conferred upon it by the operation of natural laws. Those same laws are in existence and in operation today. But they are brought into force not by the exponents of Orthodoxy, as they should be, but by the comparative few who are outside the realms of orthodox beliefs.
> 
> The problems that confronted Jesus in presenting his theme in full upon the eternal truth that the mourner shall be comforted were problems, which have their counterpart in the earth world at this moment of time. His chief opponent was the Church of his day. The chief weapon in the ecclesiastical armory of all times and all denominations is the weapon of fear, grounded upon strange mysteries and a total and complete misconception of the character and nature of the Father of the universe. The very Scriptures themselves are made to yield textual confirmation of many of the inexplicable beliefs and religious theories upon which Orthodoxy places so much reliance.
> 
> The book that should be giving earthly religious teachers the vital truth concerning one’s life upon earth and the nature of things that one can expect after earthly life is ended, that book has been made a battleground for religious contentions, with the consequent founding of hundreds of different religious denominations in disagreement with one another, some of them claiming that Jesus was very God Himself, others denying it. Had these same Scriptures not been grossly tampered with, the full truth would have been there for all to see. But with the truth to be seen by the full light of day, it would have pronounced the doom of Orthodoxy, as it was later to be known.
> 
> Where would be the authority of any Church not founded and fashioned upon the truth, when the individual was able to provide for himself and through his own psychic powers all that was necessary for his spiritual life on earth, and for his safe conduct into the spirit world - unassisted by any obscure beliefs, by any elaborate religious performances, and entirely free from fear?
> 
> By the practice of this simple ‘religion’ of communication with the spirit world, not only would the individual be the recipient of spiritual teachings to the betterment of the position which he would occupy immediately upon his transition, but throughout his life upon earth he would be able to converse easily and constantly with such of his friends and relatives who had passed into spirit lands before him.
> 
> There would be no mourning, for the mourner would be truly comforted by the converse which he would be able to enjoy at all times with those who had ‘predeceased’ him. His friends in the spirit world would be able to tell him just how they were faring, just what had befallen them after the experience of ‘dying,’ even as I have been able to tell you, my good friend, of some of my experiences since I came to dwell in these lands.
> 
> Did you not regret my passing? I know that you did, but I also know with what joy you welcomed, in those early years, the news that I was well, and I was keenly sensitive of the still greater joy with which you welcomed my return to speak to you. Is there any other way in which this bright and happy state of affairs could have been accomplished? None whatever.
> 
> Jesus told those simple folk who sat before him exactly how the mourner could be comforted, and today we are putting into operation the selfsame laws whose operation he expounded to them. Jesus had his own friends in the spirit world with whom he constantly spoke, even as is being done upon the earth-plane this day. He could compare the forms of orthodox religion that were about him with the grand truth, such as he knew it to be. And he set about bringing the ‘glad tidings’ before his own folk.
> 
> He used words and employed terms that his hearers would unfailingly understand. Occasionally, he veiled his meaning somewhat for reasons of policy, but in no case, turning the whole of one particular discourse, did he leave his audience entirely in doubt as to what was his precise meaning. He spoke as any normal person would speak who has knowledge of the facts, and he always had in mind the degree of mentality possessed by his hearers. They were simple people, unlettered and homely, who would be more familiar with homely things than with abstruse teachings upon matters, which were far and away beyond their limited comprehension.
> 
> The greatest and the simplest teachings of all have not been recorded in the gospels. The doctors of the Church have wrought havoc with what has been set down, and a wide variety of ‘interpretations’ has been given to a mutilated text. But in spite of them, the mourner will continue to be comforted in the only way possible.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![CarlStarstuff](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/carlstarstuff/32/2380_2.png) [@CarlStarstuff](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/CarlStarstuff)\
**Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 2:00pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/329 "2023-10-04T14:00:31Z")

</div>

I see George Carlin linked above - he was prolific. That video about organized religion is a humorous gist of why I wholly turned away from _all_ organized religion, for a very long time. I was hurt by how it was so bastardized.

I personally experienced people throughout my life who were heavily associated with some organized religion or other that was so full of hate and/or obsessed with control of others not like them, and it boiled my blood. Like how could they not see that they were the antithesis of what the core of their religion supposedly taught?

So even though I agreed wholly with the essence of what Jesus was saying, I tried to find my own path cutting out the “organized religion” middle-man. I looked for secular scholars like Sam Harris or Stephen Pinker basically supporting my view that we do have true deep morality and connection with others and we don’t need these organized groups to persist etc…

And in doing so, I did myself a disservice by not strengthening the spiritual part of my journey until very recently. Like even though I was subconsciously trying to live in a way that falls in line with LOO teachings:

- Love for others especially not like me,
- Love of myself (a difficult one for me),
- Learn and grow from my mistakes (catalysts)

I was not actively seeking out spiritual guidance because I was so deeply hurt by what organized religion had become - especially in the US where so much of it is SO bastardized. In doing so, there was a big part of myself I was denying.

So in my journey I’ve sort of gone full circle a little bit after discovering LOO. I’m not denying the philosophy of someone like Harris/Pinker, but _including_ it with what Ra/Q’uo/Jesus’ teachings were about.

Sorry that was a litte rant-ey but I’d been thinking about this a lot recently.

Thanks so much for hearing me out!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\
**Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 8:07pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/330 "2023-10-04T20:07:03Z")

</div>

> [@CarlStarstuff](#):
>
> I personally experienced people throughout my life who were heavily associated with some organized religion or other that was so full of hate and/or obsessed with control of others not like them, and it boiled my blood. Like how could they not see that they were the antithesis of what the core of their religion supposedly taught?

The “Is Not(s)” are showing the way towards the “Is”.  
Without the “Is Not”, the “Is” cannot be recognized.  
Without the “anti-thesis”, the “thesis” cannot be recognized.  
Through “hate”, “love” is recognized.  
Through “obsession towards control of others” the “acceptance of other’s free will” is recognized.

Having said that, do not be surprised when somebody eventually will turn “Law Of One” material into a religion and “Ra/Quo” into a ‘deity’. As apparently this pattern of “is” and “is not” is the dance of 3rd density.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![CarlStarstuff](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/carlstarstuff/32/2380_2.png) [@CarlStarstuff](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/CarlStarstuff)\
**Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/331 "2023-10-04T21:42:30Z")

</div>

Well put! Thank you!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@soup](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/soup)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 5:26am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/332 "2023-10-05T05:26:20Z")

</div>

The Ra Materials as some sort of  
sacramental scripture used in some  
organized way to promote spiritual  
development and boost quality of life?  
The word religion as stemming from  
the idea re-joining with something  
important of some sort ?

What if there’s only one law and  
no matter how you spin it, it has  
always been and will always be the  
same thing, inextricably inseparable  
except by veiling it subconscious.

It might be that all the religions in  
the world are simply consequence  
of distortions due to veiling. And  
I’d argue that Ra Materials may be  
no different - distorted artifacts of  
veiled truth seekers.

Funny thing is that some of the  
tidbit stuff you find can actually  
be helpful. I don’t fault humanity  
for trying to be helpful in creations  
of veiled artifacts.

I ponder if there’s a Law of One  
language, that you could translate  
anything into low distorted meanings.  
And I think I fall back onto high  
density vibration, independent of  
word based languages.

Is there a religion of pure vibration?  
I want to experience the creation of  
Pure Love - I don’t think that’s  
something I can talk about because  
as soon as I try, it is no longer Pure.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 6:28am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/333 "2023-10-05T06:28:39Z")

</div>

> [@soup](#):
>
> It might be that all the religions in  
> the world are simply consequence  
> of distortions due to veiling. And  
> I’d argue that Ra Materials may be  
> no different - distorted artifacts of  
> veiled truth seekers.

I don’t share that sentiment, because Ra isn’t veiled.

> [@Ra](#):
>
> We, too, have our place. We are not those of the Love [density] or of the Light [density]. We are those who are of the Law of One. In our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. We are one. That is our nature and our purpose.

I have many precious stones in my little pouch that I’ve collected over a long time, but in that pouch the Ra material would be a fist sized flawless diamond.

That grand overview has enabled me to make sense of so many other “precious stones” in my pouch.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 9:16am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/334 "2023-10-05T09:16:05Z")

</div>

More from our remorseful priest… Now please don’t expect any grand wisdom from this guy like you would get from Ra and “Quo & friends”, this is a guy who is in a third density time/space between lives. By his own admission, he is not particularly spiritually advanced.

His “mission” as he sees it, is quite specific due to his last earthly life, that of tackling the distortions and falsities found in Christianity (paticularly orthodoxy). Between lives one is unveiled, so I still find his perspective of value. He also died in 1914, when the “church” had much more sway than they do these days.

At one point in the other book he explains how the “steps of light” work, which Ra talks about, where the light becomes too bright to proceed further - higher density (4th) or higher level third density.

He’s just a guy who wishes to get a few words off his chest, and he’s quite a likeable fellow, who just fell for the “church teachings” hook, line, and sinker in his last Earthly life.

> [@Facts: ~ more spirit communications from Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson](#):
>
> Baptism
> 
> THE laws of the spirit world are the visible contradiction of a vast deal of theology of so many man-made doctrines, creeds, and dogmas, and of so large a part of the impedimenta that go to make up Orthodox religion.
> 
> One of my very early discoveries here was that one law of the spirit world, just one law, can completely falsify perhaps three or four doctrinal beliefs of the earth world.
> 
> One can perceive, as a resident of the spirit world, that the earthly Church has, in its own estimation, practically taken command of the spirit world. The Church has, in effect, built a code of complicated laws by which the soul of mortal man should be governed. It has elevated the earth to a position of far wider importance than in truth it warrants.
> 
> The earth world is of some importance in the evolution of the soul of man, and it naturally takes its place in the full scheme of existence. But the earth is merely a steppingstone to a higher life, the higher life of the spirit world. The ‘religious’ life of man upon the earth-plane should be as free as the air that he breathes. The Church has no right, no mandate, to circumscribe any soul with cramping man-made beliefs that have no approximation whatever to the truth, and that are a hindrance and not a help to man’s spiritual progression.
> 
> The Church has formulated doctrines whereby the soul’s exact state and place of abode in the spirit world have been pre-assigned to him. It has made laws, the breaking of which by man will inevitably consign him to hell for all eternity. It performs rites which, in point of absolute fact, are entirely useless to any soul, and which will not help that soul one step of the way upon his journey into the spirit world, or after.
> 
> A great deal of weight has been attached to the opinions and statements of the very early churchmen, whose so-called learning has elevated them to the title of Fathers of the Church. Never did fathers lead their children so woefully astray. They were for the most part as much in the dark as those whom they were professing to instruct. Those same Fathers of the Church are all of them in this world of spirit.
> 
> A host of them are great souls, but their views are vastly different now from those they held when upon earth. It was the contention of one of these Fathers when he was incarnate that in whatever spiritual state a man’s soul might be when his ‘death’ took place, in that state would it always remain. As the tree falls, so will it lie. The moment that ‘death’ took place, then, a man’s spiritual future was sealed. If he had misbehaved himself when upon earth, then hell was to be his portion, or perhaps, with better fortune, a sojourn of unspecified duration in purgatory. During his short life upon earth, therefore, a man would determine his abode in the spirit world for all eternity. It is upon such dicta as this that so much of Church doctrine has been founded.
> 
> In the spirit world, we are faced with reality, faced with the truth beyond all equivocation. As a priest of the Church, I performed numerous ceremonies. Since my coming to the spirit world I have seen the truth and the worth of such rites. My mind has been cleared—just as the minds of millions of others here have also been cleared of all the falsity of so much of the religious teachings of the earth. If speaking to you thus, therefore, I give you the truth as it is known to us all in these realms.
> 
> You are not living in a world where the truth is ever to be beheld. We are. If I were to temper my statements by tampering with the truth, of what use for me to speak at all?
> 
> Such communications from the spirit world would be utterly valueless. In matters appertaining to the soul and the future spiritual status of man, such an attitude would make the earth world always right and the spirit world cannot and will not take its orders from the earth world.
> 
> The Church leaders know practically nothing about the ‘future state.’ They should do.Instead, they uphold and diffuse preposterous doctrines, which are alleged to have a Divine origin and source. In most cases these doctrines are pure trivialities, which a few moments of life here in the spirit world will reveal as having evolved from trivial minds. With my fuller experience of the spirit world, I have sometimes shuddered in recalling how some petty doctrine is inseparably associated with the Greatest Mind of the universe.
> 
> When I was on earth I fully believed that to ‘die’ un-baptised was to be deprived of entry to the realms of heaven. The greatest extreme of all was to believe that un-baptised persons who passed to the spirit world in that condition were condemned to hell forever. I, therefore, regarded the whole ceremony of baptism as of the utmost importance to the soul’s ‘salvation.’ I deemed it, in fact, indispensable. I believed that it completely washed away every trace of ‘sin’ if the baptism were performed upon one who had already reached the ‘age of reason.’
> 
> I believed that were a person to omit being baptised until he was upon his deathbed, that being then baptised he would go straight to heaven. And further, that whatever ‘misdeeds’ he had committed, those misdeeds would be taken from him in the twinkling of an eye, that his soul would be spotless and fit only for the highest heaven. I did not know then, as I know now, that there is no mystic or magic formula that will eradicate from an evildoer the results of his evil ways. It was part of my faith that as, and when, I baptised an infant so I saved that infant for the realms of heaven; that had that infant ‘died’ without the performance of this ceremony, or at least without the barest recital even by a layman of the few brief but essential words of the actual baptism, that child would be forever deprived of the sight of God. He would never be able to see God ‘face to face.’
> 
> It did not occur to me, as I now know to be the case, that the spiritual beauty of the infant’s soul was itself a part of the Father of Heaven Himself, and that no words uttered by any person upon the earth-plane could add one trace more beauty to that soul. The soul that is implanted within the child is perfect.
> 
> There is one law, at least, in the spirit world that entirely opposes the rite of baptism, and that is the law of cause and effect.
> 
> It is a bad doctrine this baptismal ‘washing away of sins.’ Many are the souls we have met here who were shocked to learn that scores of happy children who live in the children’s realm have passed into the spirit world un-baptised. When they came to understand their new situation and the laws that govern this world, they soon realised that the spirit law that brings all the children from the earth world into their own realm in the spirit world is far, far greater than any baptismal rite. Indeed, it becomes trifling beside the truth and beauty of the children’s sphere.
> 
> To retain the rite purely as a traditional symbol, as it were, of dedicating the infant to God, would be harmless, since it would involve no one in the belief of any obscure doctrines. To perform some simple ceremony of naming an infant, and at the same time to offer thanks for having emerged safely from the ordeal of childbirth, that, too, is harmless. But to go beyond this is unquestionably wrong.
> 
> It will be remarked, perhaps, that the Scriptures, upon which so much of the Christian religion is founded, clearly state that we must be baptised, and that even the words of the formula are given, without the exact recital of which the whole ceremony is void. That is so. But because this appears in the Scriptures, I cannot alter the laws of the spirit world were I even willing and able to do so - and most emphatically I am not to do so! The spirit world and the laws of the spirit world are a great deal more important than some words that are alleged to have been spoken nearly two thousand years ago.
> 
> The spurious importance that has been attached to the rite of baptism is but another instance of the false position in which Christianity has been placed, giving it an exclusiveness to which it has no right. That exclusiveness has been extended until it not only reaches far out into the spirit world, but until it almost encroaches upon the Father of the universe Himself. If Christian Orthodoxy has not entirely claimed the full possessive rights of approach to the Father of the universe, it certainly claims the most extensive privileges for all who call themselves Christians, whether good or bad.
> 
> Is it in the spirit of true justice that some should be more privileged than others in matters of their ‘soul’s salvation’? Many will answer yes, because they consider that the Christian religion is above and beyond all others simply because it is ‘Christian.’ That is not a satisfactory reason, but it is one that, nevertheless, is most commonly given. When we come to discuss things with people here we find that they staunchly upheld their Christianity when upon earth, but can give no adequate reason why they did so. Some will assert that they were baptised into the Christian religion at birth, and so they have called themselves Christians ever since.
> 
> They naturally assume - at first - that they are in a Christian heaven, a heaven that is the reward for being a good Christian - or at least for being a Christian at all, and of leading a good life. And in the course of time their eyes are opened. When they set out, as I did, upon a voyage of discovery through these realms, they begin to meet people who, to say the very least, cannot really belong to these Christian realms in which they fondly imagine they are now living. They will see visitors from the higher realms whose very cast of countenance would suggest that they were not Christians; the colour of their skin and their general appearance, too, will add to this rather surprising discovery.
> 
> None of these souls was ever baptised, and so, according to some beliefs, they should have been ‘cast into exterior darkness.’ Certainly they would seem to have no business to be dwelling in these realms. But the stubborn fact remains that they are dwelling in these realms, and they are here regardless of race, or colour, or creed.
> 
> The three distinctions have no validity, no significance whatever in the spirit world. Race and colour form no hindrance to the soul’s grand progress ional march, and those of us who ever entertained narrow and insular view upon the matter are compelled by force of the truth to readjust our views. Those of us who, when incarnate, preferred to regard people of other races and nationalities as human beings like ourselves, find that when we meet such people in the spirit world they are our friends, glad to know us as we are happy to know them.  
> The colour of the skin and the contour of the nose are matters upon which we have no thought at all.
> 
> In these realms we are a great company of true friends, as proud to know one whose countenance is dusky as we are to know one whose features are pale by comparison.
> 
> Gone forever are racial prejudices and the feelings of estrangement between men of different racial colour.
> 
> Amongst all this immense population of various nationalities there are millions who were not baptised when they were upon earth, millions who acknowledged allegiance to no religion, but who lived their lives according to their conscience, and who behaved towards their neighbour as they would have their neighbour behave towards them.
> 
> They were unhampered by any form of religious creed when they finally arrived in the spirit world.
> 
> I have said that people are here in these realms regardless of creed. By that I mean that whatever creed such people professed when they were incarnate has made no difference to their abode in the spirit world. They have earned their abode by the kind of life they led upon the earth-plane, and by that means alone. But their religious beliefs usually undergo a vast reconstruction after their transition has taken place, when they find that Orthodoxy has been peremptorily halted at the very portals of the spirit world. The churches that exist here in the old earthly form are mere religious pretenders and of no significance whatever.
> 
> In the light of our new experiences in the spirit world, we can see just what degree of reliance can be placed upon tradition in the ordering of the religious side of life upon earth. We can see how nation after nation for generation after generation has held on to the belief of the vital necessity of the baptismal rite as the spiritual key that will unlock the doors of the spirit world to the arriving soul.
> 
> We can see that Orthodoxy regards the un-baptised person as standing in deadly peril of the loss of ‘salvation’ of his soul. Many incarnate people treat such a person as a spiritual outcast, doomed to eternal perdition, fit only for the lowest hell. Orthodoxy is blindly ignorant and unwilling to learn. Throughout the centuries past it has built up an elaborate system of religious observances and religious teachings, which are in the main completely worthless. The Churches have arrogated to themselves powers over the individual soul, which have no basis in truth or fact. Indeed, these powers are nothing but a sham; they can never be substantiated. The Church can boast, it can try to circumscribe a soul with threats of spiritual disaster if it disobeys its counterfeit ‘commandments.’
> 
> It can try to impose all manner of restricting conditions upon its members; it can all but stifle the spiritual life out of man; it can live its self-satisfied, genteel life upon the earth-plane, proudly proclaiming, in its presumptuous way, what it fondly believes to be the ‘will of God.’
> 
> It can go upon its superior way condemning men, on the one hand, to everlasting fire and, upon the other, converting them into ‘saints’ of the Church. The Church can go on doing these absurd things, while we in the spirit world assess them at their true valuation. And it falls upon us in the spirit world to try to counteract all fallacious teachings that have been imbibed by the Church’s deluded adherents when they ultimately arrive in the spirit world.
> 
> Have I not told you how, in company with others, I am engaged upon the work of helping people immediately after they have left the earth world? We try to show them that all is well, and that splendid happiness awaits them, here and now, if they will but forget the stupid teachings of their earthly Church, cast fear from their minds, and look about them at the glories and wonders of their new land.
> 
> We and many others are continually engaged upon this work, and it is made supremely necessary by the blind religious teachings of the earth world. Never, for one moment, do we begrudge an instant of the time we devote to this work, but what I do now, in the name of us all and with the utmost vigour, is to protest against the state of affairs that should bring this work about, namely, to put right in the spirit world the results of the abysmal religious blunders of the earth world.
> 
> It is a humiliating discovery to find, after we have arrived in the spirit world, that not only are most of our religious ideas wrong, but also that we have spent our time, as part of our life’s work on earth, in passing on those erroneous ideas to other people. Did I say humiliating? It is much more - it is absolutely crushing! Is it to be wondered at, therefore, that we hasten to set right, at the very first opportunity, the false teachings that we have disseminated while on earth, by helping those who, as a result of such teaching, have arrived here spiritually bemused.
> 
> The earth world is existing in a state of spiritual fog. The mists of Orthodox teachings have settled upon Christians and blotted from their sight every glimpse of the spirit world, a world that in reality is so near to them, but which Orthodoxy has made so remote. The teachers in the Churches are floundering in a morass of spiritual ignorance. When they arrive here, the weight of that ignorance presses down upon them in its full force. Their eyes are soon opened, however - opened for the first time.
> 
> They find that the jargon that stood them in such good stead and covered a wealth of spiritual ignorance is no longer of any value. The very words have an empty sound now. In one second of time, almost, they see practically the whole of their beliefs tumbling in ruins about them. All their most cherished doctrines are swept away by the plain fact of their being in the spirit world and faced with the truth. They see their theology reduced to its proper dimensions. They see that from a grain of truth there has grown a great false creed, perhaps, or that from some simple and natural act there has been built up a huge edifice of ritualistic performance, attendance at which the laity will avoid only upon deadly peril to their ‘immortal souls.’
> 
> These ministers of the Church will see that some doctrine or another to which they so steadfastly clung has now become mere nonsense, to be quickly cast aside as useless. They will discover that their dogmas and creeds have paled into complete insignificance in the light of the great truths that are confronting them upon every hand in the spirit world. They will regret the time they have spent upon earth in supporting such untruth.
> 
> Some of these people are wrathful that they should have lived in such ignorance, wrathful that others should have so led them astray. Others are wrathful with themselves for not seeing what is now so perfectly obvious to them. They feel humiliated that, after studying so much, the ‘knowledge’, which they gained, is not knowledge at all.
> 
> They feel humiliated that they took upon themselves so much authority over the spiritual lives of other people. They feel humiliated in the remembrance of what they taught and preached, and of the feelings of superiority and spiritual security that their positions gave them. They feel humbled when they recall the number of times they spoke so freely of the ‘will of God’ to cover up the deficiencies of their teachings, or to soothe some soul in distress. They will recall the long and fulsome prayers, which they felt, were the only kind acceptable to the Supreme Being.
> 
> They will shiver at the very thought of how they regarded themselves as being looked upon with especial favour by the Deity because they had been called to their high and holy office of minister of the Church. When the full and crushing realisation of all this comes upon them they seek to hide themselves away that they may recover from the state of overwhelming mortification which such revelations have brought upon them. They will eventually emerge from their self-communion, strengthened by the truth as they now know it, and they will solicit that help which is ever at the command of us here in every realm and region of the spirit world.
> 
> And how do I know all this? Why, my dear friend, I know it because I have witnessed it many, many times in my work among priests of my own former Church as well as among those of other communities. It is most absorbing work, and it has brought us a host of grand and enthusiastic friends. We labor together to bring solace to souls in distress, as we were once similarly distressed ourselves. So it will ever go on until the earth world becomes more enlightened and the incarnate pass to us here with a full knowledge of what is before them. It will be a happy day when that happens - and many of us will have to cast about for something else to do!
> 
> If I thus demolish the ‘sacred’ rite of baptism, it may be asked, what becomes of the words of Jesus containing his injunction to ‘go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost’? Why, they just recede into their proper place, or to be more exact, they reveal their true value. Jesus never spoke those words. He would not, he could not have spoken them. His great knowledge of spiritual truths and his deep acquaintance with spiritual laws would effectually prevent him from falling into any such erroneous teaching as has been incorporated into the words I have just given. Both the words and their interpretation are a pure fabrication.
> 
> The rite of baptism is an ancient one, and it was long in existence before the birth of Jesus. Like so many others of its kind, it was begotten of ignorance of spiritual truths.
> 
> An initiation ceremony may be harmless of itself - and it can be equally useless. It is the false trimmings and the embroideries that are woven into the original fabric which cause the damage.
> 
> The erroneous teaching that baptism is essential to the ‘soul’s salvation’ is completely opposed to the truths of the spirit world. Such interpolations abound in the New Testament. It is a flagrantly dishonest method employed by the Church to keep its members under its ecclesiastical thumb. It is but another instrument of fear with which to frighten its flock. It is but another example of the claims put forth by Orthodoxy for its exclusiveness.
> 
> The Christian, it is alleged, is in a vastly superior spiritual position because he is baptised, or he has enormously greater spiritual prospects than one who is not baptised. Indeed, the prospects for the un-baptised are pretty poor when they shall eventually arrive in the spirit world. Certainly there will be no ‘heaven’ for them. Or if there be some kind of heaven for them, there will be no mistake about it.
> 
> They will be in this other heaven because they are un-baptised, and therefore are merely tolerated since they have managed to lead fairly good lives while upon earth.
> 
> Their un-baptised state, however, must be always with them, and it is then too late to rectify the matter. They will never be able to see God face to face. That is the great penalty for their omission. There are supposedly others, but that is the greatest. A few words, however indifferently spoken, a little water sprinkled upon a person, give him the right and privilege to see God! Was ever spiritual presumption carried to further lengths!
> 
> In ancient days, when there was a wider knowledge of psychic lore, the use of water was better understood. But there was no mystic rite involved in its employment. It was merely used to assist in the operation of psychic force because water is a powerful conductor of such force, and water supplies a natural channel. Water is also a powerful cleanser of the etheric body, and it can effectively disperse whatever unpleasant influences may have gathered around the spirit body of incarnate man.
> 
> Water is therefore a double cleanser. It will wash the physical body and at the same time help to move whatever may be unwanted upon the spirit body. But there is no mystic, holy rite attached this perfectly ordinary function of cleansing. Under no consideration will bathing in the water remove the blotches and blemishes which are to be seen upon the spirit body as a consequence of the kind of life its owner lives.
> 
> The first and early use of water in this way was later misunderstood, and so became an initiation ceremony upon the validity of which so much depended.
> 
> Water is a splendid channel for the operation of psychic force. It is for that reason that Jesus chose the proximity of it when he felt that the occasion called for an extra flow of power. And where could one find a better body of water than that of lake or sea, and where could one be better situated than to be upon that water?
> 
> It is chronicled in the gospels that Jesus himself was baptised. He could have submitted himself to such a ceremony without undergoing any harm. He was not imbibing any false teachings. But with his superior knowledge he knew just what psychic effect the water would have upon him - and he constantly used it for that purpose. Such incidents and occasions remain unrecorded in the New Testament, or to be more accurate, they have been expunged from it.
> 
> The baptism ‘ceremony’ of Jesus which is recounted in the Scriptures is only one among the many scores of other occasions when the similar ‘rite’ was performed. In other words, Jesus was ‘baptised’ almost every day of his short life on earth, for the simple reasons I have given you. But the Church has transformed this natural action into a ceremony to be applied once only to any individual, in the normal course of things.
> 
> I foresee that possible exception will be taken to what I have said. That I cannot help. I speak the truth. But that, it may be countered, is a mere statement. Just so, it is a mere statement - of truth, none the less. How can I bring proof to you? Corroboration, perhaps, but how to bring proof? To ask others to come who will make the same affirmations as myself will only shift the responsibility on to their shoulders, and so it could go on indefinitely, gathering greater numbers in the process, it is true, providing more corroboration, which as between the incarnate and concerning affairs of the earth, would have ready credence, but as concerning spirit world, no!
> 
> So I must simply repeat that I am telling the truth as millions upon millions of us in the spirit world know it. The veracity of my statements will ultimately be demonstrated to every soul whose eye I have caught, so that if you challenge me here and now, so to speak, I will reply however much you may disagree with what I am recounting to you, however much you may wish to retain your opinions and ideas or those of the Church to which you belong, such standpoint cannot alter one iota the truths of the spirit world. I cannot alter them to suit the teachings of hundreds of years of Orthodoxy.
> 
> Therefore I say that what I am now telling is what you must expect to discover, without fail, when in due course you arrive in the spirit world yourself.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\
**Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:18am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/335 "2023-10-06T10:18:39Z")

</div>

I remember watching a documentary about reincarnation, it was long time ago I can’t found the link to the video. Wherein a person during past life regression recall a lifetime as catholic priest in Ireland on mid 19th century.  
He then have similar regrets similar to being mentioned above and reincarnate again to in order to ‘fix/balanced it out’ at early 20th century. The incarnation did not go as initially planned and he ended up doing bootlegging business in Chicago. (Al Capone era)  
He then reincarnate again at mid 20th century as Canadian.  
Thus what was ‘planned’ between lives, before the veil being applied and what actually happened during incarnation can indeed vary greatly.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 12:05pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/336 "2023-10-06T12:05:52Z")

</div>

> [@Quid](#):
>
> Thus what was ‘planned’ between lives, before the veil being applied and what actually happened during incarnation can indeed vary greatly.

Oh yeah definitely! It’s the “working with a little candle in the dark” as Ra calls it - being veiled. I read a book once called The Wheel of Rebirth by H. Challoner detailing life after life over millennia from before Atlantis times until today.

In Atlantis she was a guy, and also a black magician, so the book chronicles how she worked off that negative karma life after life enduring immense suffering until her “breakthrough” when she finally “found the light”.

As for this remorseful priest, I’m really enjoying his descriptions of “the other side” and his insights and surprises where there is no veil.

I’ll share a bit more of the book once I get a moment.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\
**Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 5:30pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/337 "2023-10-06T17:30:24Z")

</div>

Btw one among the download that I’ve managed to ‘peek’ is I was once a catholic nun somewhere in Europe during medieval era.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/338 "2023-10-06T20:02:07Z")

</div>

Oh deary me…so this “organised religion” thing is a recurring theme for you… 🙂

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 9:13am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/339 "2023-10-07T09:13:58Z")

</div>

> [@Facts ~ more spirit communications from Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson](#):
>
> Vicarious Atonement
> 
> A WHOLE chapter indeed, a whole volume, might be written upon the crudities of religion. To us in the spirit world there appears so much in the religions of the earth world that is really crude, and most of it is a survival of what the earth calls paganism.
> 
> Again from the point of view of the spirit world, there is often very little to choose between the peculiar rites practised by some native tribe and the equally peculiar test performed by some of the Orthodox religions of the more ‘civilised’ parts of the earth world. The crudely carved idol of the natives has as much real significance in it as the upholding of some fantastic Christian belief.
> 
> It is the custom of the white man upon earth to sneer in a superior way at his dark brother because he is religiously so far in advance of the latter; and the latter is but a heathen, after all, who must be converted to the true religion - as expounded by the representative of the particular ‘true’ faith sent out to perform the task. The Christian does not realise that much of his religion has been taken bodily from that of the ‘heathen.’ The Christian is an extraordinarily bad example to his black brother in other ways than in the enormous contentions which exist between one religious sect and another.
> 
> The Church to which I belonged when I was upon earth possesses some of the most elaborate of rites. It is, in fact, a vast and well-ordered religious organisation, having no doubts whatever upon any question or problem concerning the ‘salvation’ of man. Every contingency that is likely to arise in the lives and habits and thoughts of its adherents has been fully covered by the Church’s laws and commandments. Its members are bound, even as I was, by those laws and ‘commandments,’ and individual religious interpretation is condemned.
> 
> In contrast to all this there are numerous earthly religions that practise a severe austerity in their services, admitting into them nothing which is not of the plainest description and completely free from all ‘taint’ of ritualism. The number of such religions upon earth is large, each disagreeing with the others in their beliefs, and each claiming more or less to be the ‘one, true Church.’
> 
> From time to time, the earth world witnesses attempts at what some sections of the Church call ‘Christian Unity,’ where members of a number of religious denominations meet, to discuss their various beliefs in the hope of finding some ‘least common factor’ upon which they can all be in full agreement, and so effect thereby some sort of unity. These essays at spiritual unity are doomed to failure, and they will always be doomed to failure for just so long as the Churches are founded upon fallacious doctrines.
> 
> Between the two great extremes, which I have just mentioned to you, of elaborate ritual on the one hand and severe simplicity upon the other, every imaginable sort of religion and religious practice, creed, and dogma is to be found. The vastly varying and differing sects which are spread throughout the earth world, each with its numerous followers, amount in the aggregate to some hundreds of separate religious sects, and all of them claiming to have been founded upon some one injunction or another that was reputed to have been given by Jesus himself, or upon some text or other to be found elsewhere in the New Testament.
> 
> Each of these religious bodies will positively claim to be a true Church - if not the true Church - on the strength of its scriptural foundation. And in each form of religion, the New Testament is hailed as the true, inspired Word of God. out of the inspired Word of God, then, there has come all this religious turmoil, and controversy and contention!
> 
> One of the principal articles of belief among early generations of man upon earth was the belief in the absolute need of offering sacrifices to the gods. They were mostly blood sacrifices of either human beings or animals. The offering of blood, it was earnestly believed in those far off days, was the only oblation acceptable to the gods, and the only means of appeasing their wrath.
> 
> How this could have pleased, or conciliated, or helped the particular god was one of the ‘mysteries’ of religion. This primitive and barbaric belief of the essential need for blood sacrifices has passed in the Christian religion, where people are still being taught upon earth that God sacrificed His only son upon the cross for the salvation of mankind.
> 
> Could any belief be of a more terribly gross nature; could any belief be ever a greater travesty of the very nature and essence of the Great Father of heaven and earth? Could any belief be more barbaric and horrible?
> 
> Is it to be wondered at when folk say that they do not know how to love God as they are taught to do by their religious instructors, when they are told that God, the Father, demanded not only a blood sacrifice, but that the sacrificial victim should be His only son. Could this be a God of love?; is a question that would spring to the mind of any normally constituted person.
> 
> To essay an answer to such a question is to lead one into a wilderness of theological complexities which have little relation to the truth. The maintenance of such a doctrine as that God demanded a blood sacrifice of his son is to impute the most horrible and diabolical qualities to the Father of the universe. This sacrifice, ecclesiastics will tell you, was necessary for the remission of the sins of the people on earth. God demanded it, it will be affirmed. That is pure paganism - and without a vestige of truth behind it.
> 
> We are each responsible for our own sins. We must pay the penalty ourselves for any transgressions of spiritual laws; no one can do that for us. Thus is true justice administered throughout the spirit world to all alike, impartially, infallibly, and exactly.
> 
> ‘Redemption’ cannot be bought for us. But even if ‘redemption’ were to be bought - by some strange mutation of spiritual laws - it would be a worthless article because there is no individual in the spirit world, or upon earth, who could for one instant of time substantiate the claim of being a ‘redeemer’.
> 
> Even the most illustrious souls. who dwell far and away above us here in these realms of light, even they have no power to remove the burden which mortal man can lay upon himself by the life he has led upon earth. Man is his own ‘redeemer’. He always has been. and he always will be.
> 
> We cannot shift on to other shoulders the weight which we must carry ourselves. But we shall have every assistance in lightening that burden, and the means to do so will be shown to us readily upon our merest wish. That is as far as any person can go.
> 
> The Father of Heaven asks for no appeasement; He requires none. Neither does he need placating by the offering of sacrifices, albeit they be bloodless sacrifices.
> 
> In the spirit world we do not ever think in terms of ‘body and blood.’ Orthodoxy exults in the terms, and will point to the famous gathering of Jesus to have said, when taking bread and wine into his hands, this is my body…this is my blood. And asked his friends to repeat this same assembly in his commemoration. From this simple wish has sprung a wealth of dogma and doctrine and ritualistic practices. In the latter there is supposed to be re-enacted the sacrifice, in a bloodless manner, which Jesus made upon his death. Let us examine the subject from the point of view of the spirit world.
> 
> Orthodoxy lays enormous stress upon the ‘body and blood’ of Jesus. What spiritual significance do they bear? The answer is none. The physical body is the vehicle which the spirit body uses during its sojourn upon earth. The blood that streams through that body is one of its vital forces, but the spirit body, which is resident within it, animates the physical body.
> 
> The blood that runs through the veins of the physical body can be released in such quantities that the physical body can no longer receive the animation of the spirit body. When you pass into the spirit world, you have no further use for your physical body. It counts as nothing in your mind.
> 
> By comparison with the superlative excellence of your spirit body, the earthly body was just a ponderous, awkward, and very vulnerable structure. But it served its purpose. With our new body we do not think in terms of ‘body’ and ‘blood.’ We have both, but they are indestructible and cannot be harmed. A ‘sacrifice’ of ‘body and blood’, that is to say, a religious service wherein a piece of bread is held to be the body of Jesus, and a cup of wine to be his blood, becomes, in the eyes of us here in the spirit world, a revolting conception.
> 
> If it is felt that a commemorative gathering would be helpful, then there is no reason why some description of service should not be held. But any suggestion, any thought even, of ‘body and blood’ should be ruthlessly expunged. Incidentally, such service has very little spiritual value - if any at all.
> 
> The spirit world is not concerned with ritualistic observances whether they embody strange doctrines or not. The theologian will claim that such services are necessary for man upon earth if he is to have the ‘grace of God’ upon him. That is rubbish.
> 
> God is not dependent upon some trumpery religious device in order to pour down upon man His force and power. The force and power of the Father of the universe are to be had upon the instant and in any place whatsoever. Such down-pouring requires no religious apparatus, no special building, no formularies, no man-made conditions or qualifications.
> 
> It may be objected that I am condemning communal ‘worship’ as of no account in the spiritual scheme of things; that the services of the Church, in fact, are useless. I do not condemn corporate services in the Church, but I do affirm that the majority of them are spiritually worthless.
> 
> A church service, of which the vital or central part is based upon a false doctrine, is completely worthless spiritually. Again, the object of such service must be taken into consideration. If it is intended as an act of propitiation to the Father, it is valueless. The Father needs no acts of propitiation.
> 
> If the service is performed because it is alleged that God demands worship, then again it has no significance. God does not ever demand worship of any kind or description. If the service be held for the ‘remission of the sins’ of the congregation, then once more the service is of no avail.
> 
> The most magnificent service ever conducted in the largest and most ornate cathedral with the maximum of solemnity, pomp, and ritualistic display, and in the presence of a whole hierarchy, will not, in the smallest, minutes degree remove from a single ‘sinner’ one fraction of the burden which a mis-spent life has loaded upon the shoulders of the breaker of spiritual laws. No pleading, however eloquently delivered or prolonged, will achieve that object.
> 
> Those peculiar religious devices, known to the orthodox world as the sacraments, through which, it is held, the grace of God will descend upon man, are just man-made institutions whereby the people can be kept in proper subjugation. Mysteries are necessary in maintaining the Church’s power and authority. It would never do for the people to know as much as their ministers of the Church.
> 
> By withholding as much as possible, their fear of God is increased, and with that well inculcated, the people will do just as they are told. The authority of the Church will be maintained and all will be well—so authority itself may think.
> 
> All is not well. All is very ill, indeed, with the countless thousands who have been misled, misguided, and befooled by their supposed religious mentors. The Church has built up an elaborate system of observances and doctrines, most of which, it will be claimed, have their foundation in the New Testament because they were actually instituted by Jesus himself.
> 
> Dishonest or ignorant scribes have put into the mouth of Jesus sayings which we, in the spirit world, know positively he could never have uttered. Jesus is supposed to have spoken about his ‘Church.’ That is a falsity of the worst kind. On no occasion was Jesus interested in establishing any Church. He dealt solely with spiritual truths; he was at no time concerned with the creation and establishment of peculiar sacramental devices upon which man’s salvation would have to depend.
> 
> He knew that no one, either on earth or in the spirit world, can take upon himself the character or functions of a ‘redeemer’ or a ‘saviour’ in the sense in which those two terms are known, meant, and understood by the Church and most of its followers. Jesus dealt only with spiritual truths, not with religious fancies and their ritualistic trimmings. He stated the truth, bare and unadorned; he made no claims for himself beyond the fact that he knew and spoke the truth upon all matters appertaining to man’s spiritual purpose and destiny.
> 
> Of the full comprehensive truth that Jesus spoke during his brief, active life upon earth, scarcely the smallest fraction has been recorded; that is to say, recorded for posterity to read. Much more was originally written down, but it was deleted. It was far too simple in its content to please some minds, especially those who could not see the sense in allowing the people to know too much about themselves and their spiritual make-up and destiny.
> 
> There was so little to be made out of the truth as Jesus proclaimed it. There were no mysteries with which to hold folk in spiritual subjection, to bring them to heel with fear of terrible punishments to come if they disobeyed authority. Primarily, God must be a God of Fear. If love came into the picture, it was merely done to temper the fear somewhat. The great thing was to avoid the wrath of God, because when He was not filled with wrath, then one could look for a display of that love.
> 
> From a simple farewell meal, taken in company with a dozen friends, there has arisen a form of church service which bears not the slightest resemblance to what it is supposed to commemorate.
> 
> Those few friends were asked not to forget Jesus after he was gone from their presence physically. They were asked to meet in some such fashion, and by exercising the psychic faculties which they possessed, they would be enabled to see him again and hold converse with him collectively, as it had become their custom so to do.
> 
> While each one could by his own powers perceive Jesus, it was the pleasantest form of communion when they should foregather. Jesus could then tell them something more of the great unseen world, the spirit world, of which he had become a resident. Those followers were happy that their great friend was able to be with them, though the world outside was unaware of it. The dreadful tragedy of his end upon earth was quickly submerged by his actual presence among them.
> 
> Indeed, it is the natural thing, here in the spirit world, to find that the glories of the new life, it beauties, its illimitable prospect, and its joys, collectively help to banish from the mind whatever unpleasantness, disaster, tragedy, or horrors may have been attendant upon the actual transition.
> 
> The process of elimination, as we might call it, may take a short or long period, according to various factors of circumstances, among which must be reckoned the mentality of the person concerned. It is the shock of transition that makes itself felt most prominently and not necessarily the mode of transition.
> 
> Here is another important point which it is well to emphasise. The actual process of passing into the spirit world through the death of the physical body is precisely the same with every human being born upon earth. Although the physical causes of transition may vary a thousand fold, the spiritual process is exactly the same in all cases. Jesus was no exception to this natural spiritual law.
> 
> There was therefore no resurrection ‘upon the third day’ as it is usually stated in the different creeds. Resurrection just does not take place. Whither would a person arise—and whence? If an individual, following his transition, finds it expedient to lapse into the refreshing and revitalising sleep that is such a common occurrence in these lands, then he will do so. He will eventually awake; it may be after many months have elapsed or merely after the passage of an hour or two of earthly time.
> 
> But that awakening is just an ordinary function, and it is no more a ‘resurrection’ than is your awakening every morning in your earthly bed - and for the same reason. You have in both cases merely emerged from a natural sleep. We do not have a ‘resurrection’ here in the spirit world, at any time of our lives.
> 
> The transition of Jesus, as far as the spiritual process is concerned, was exactly in accordance with the law that governs all transitions. The process does not admit of any alteration or variation, any modification or exception. The ‘death’ of Jesus and his speedy return in his spirit body to his friends demonstrated, to them, in the simplest and most convincing way, what he had himself told them so often during his earthly life. He proved to them beyond a shadow of doubt that man survives the grave, that ‘death’ means death of the physical body only; that the spirit body and the personality which it harbours are indestructible and imperishable.
> 
> He proved to them that death does not end everything; that man lives on and on. He showed them that while man can utterly destroy the life that is in the physical body, and commit butchery upon that body, the soul of man cannot be touched in the same way. Man cannot lose his soul.
> 
> Jesus clearly demonstrated to his old friends whom he had left behind that not only was life continuous and uninterrupted by death, but that it was possible and pleasurable and commendable and profitable for dwellers in spirit lands to return to the earth to visit their friends there, to talk with them, to help them and advise them where necessary, to continue the pleasant intercourse which the transition had seemingly disrupted.
> 
> Jesus showed that it was right and proper for the one world to hold converse thus with the other. And he came right into the midst of his friends on earth and offered them the comfort of his actual presence. He practised exactly what he had formerly preached - blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.
> 
> Those companions of old did not, in their sadness, have to turn to dismal texts; they did not have to trust in some mysterious and inexplicable ‘faith.’ They were not thrown back upon ‘hope.’ They were not told it was the ‘will of God.’ Instead, Jesus came and stood in their presence as one of them, as he had done a thousand times before when he was incarnate. His visible tangible presence did what no quotations from ancient chronicles could do; it did what no abstruse theological disquisition could ever accomplish. It brought supreme comfort and joy to a dozen or more sad hearts.
> 
> Jesus was the great exemplar of communication between our two worlds, yours and mine. He showed that with proper development and under proper auspices it is indisputably right for the two worlds to hold a normal converse through the exercise of psychic faculties in a normal rational way.
> 
> Jesus, among others, pointed the way for all mankind to follow, but Orthodoxy will have none of it. Communication with the spirit world is devilish and damnable, and no good can come of it. The whole thing reeks of hell, and if it does not drive a person mad, he will merely escape that to roast in hell for all eternity. None but evil spirits come back to earth, and they do so for the purpose of dragging down to their own filthy level those who are foolish or misguided enough to ‘dabble’ in such pernicious practices. It is all necromancy; a calling-up of the dead. The good spirit will not come. If any claim to be a good spirit, it is a devil masquerading as an angel of light. What unutterable puerile nonsense! And what colossal ignorance!
> 
> There will be some - perhaps many - who will affirm that not only am I a devil, but that I am the very Prince of Darkness himself. Let them think so if it gives them satisfaction. There are others, far, far greater than I am who have been regarded as demons from the realms of darkness, so that therein I find myself in good company!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/340 "2023-10-07T20:59:18Z")

</div>

> [@Facts ~ more spirit communications from Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson](#):
>
> This sacrifice, ecclesiastics will tell you, was necessary for the remission of the sins of the people on earth. God demanded it, it will be affirmed. That is pure paganism - and without a vestige of truth behind it.

I will say that is “pure Christianism”.  
There are many ‘paganism’ which do not hold such ridiculous thought, such as Taoism, Buddhism, some sect of Hinduism, Native Americanism, Celts Druidism etc… too many to be mentioned here.

It then begged a question who and why this ‘entity’ (might be non physical) that created / invented this religion which demands ‘blood’ as offering? Why they require human / animal blood? What is human / animal blood to them?

It’s true that Christianism is not alone on this, there’s also Aztec’s religion, Canaanite Baal religion to cite some example which share similar thought processes.  
And also Judaism and Islam with their ‘animal sacrifice’ rites. (“Korban”)

> **[Korban](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korban)**
>
> In Judaism, the korban (.mw-parser-output .script-hebrew,.mw-parser-output .script-Hebr{font-family:"SBL Hebrew","SBL BibLit","Taamey Ashkenaz","Taamey Frank CLM","Frank Ruehl CLM","Ezra SIL","Ezra SIL SR","Keter Aram Tsova","Taamey David CLM","Keter YG","Shofar","David CLM","Hadasim CLM","Simple CLM","Nachlieli",Cardo,Alef,"Noto Serif Hebrew","Noto Sans Hebrew","David Libre",David,"Times New Roman",Gisha,Arial,FreeSerif,FreeSans}קָרְבָּן‎, qorbān), also spelled qorban or corban, is any of a vari...

> [@Facts ~ more spirit communications from Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson](#):
>
> Those peculiar religious devices, known to the orthodox world as the sacraments, through which, it is held, the grace of God will descend upon man, are just man-made institutions whereby the people can be kept in proper subjugation. Mysteries are necessary in maintaining the Church’s power and authority. It would never do for the people to know as much as their ministers of the Church.
> 
> By withholding as much as possible, their fear of God is increased, and with that well inculcated, the people will do just as they are told. The authority of the Church will be maintained and all will be well—so authority itself may think.

Bingo, that’s the reason why one created a religion anyway…  
Power, authority, control…

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/341 "2023-10-07T22:12:19Z")

</div>

I find the word “paganisn” way too much of a generalisation, I would rather go with “tribalism” or “primitive / superstitious”, but if he goes into all that complexity, his main message will drown in all the details.

All in all, I commend him for his attempt, because a message like this is sorely needed.

I ‘do’ realise channeling is highly subjective, but I find him very believable…not to mention “a fresh breeze”.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:18am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/342 "2023-10-08T03:18:02Z")

</div>

> [@Passer-by](#):
>
> I find the word “paganisn” way too much of a generalisation

From fanatical Christians point of view, everything that is “non Christian” is Paganism. They even labeled out “Judaism” (and Islam) as among Paganism, unknowing of similarity between those and his own religion. Heck some even labeled Orthodox as Pagans. Fanaticism and Ignorance tend to go hand in hand, strengthening each others.

Similar phenomenon can be found within Judaism and Islam, anyone non-Jew is a Goy, anyone non-Muslim is a Kuffar (Infidel).

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