# Message From Jesus

**URL:** <https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370>\
**Category:** Spiritual & Metaphysical Matters\
**Created:** [July 26, 2023, 9:29am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370 "2023-07-26T09:29:28Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 16

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 6:11am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/303 "2023-09-19T06:11:03Z")

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King James bible…who was King James?

> [@](#):
>
> “Defender of the Faith” is a title historically associated with the British monarchy. It was first granted to King Henry VIII by Pope Leo X in 1521 for Henry’s defense of Catholicism against the Protestant Reformation.
> 
> However, after Henry VIII’s split from the Catholic Church and the establishment of the Church of England, subsequent monarchs, including King James I, continued to use the title “Defender of the Faith.”
> 
> King James I, specifically, received this title from Pope Clement VIII in 1603. Later, the phrase “Fidei Defensor” (Defender of the Faith) became part of the monarch’s official title in England and is still used by British monarchs today.

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 6:27am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/304 "2023-09-19T06:27:37Z")

</div>

> [@In My Own Way - Alan Watts](#):
>
> But, for myself, I had no heart for this “Onward Christian Soldiers” approach to life. It was thus that at the age of fifteen, as a scholar supported by the foundation of Canterbury Cathedral, the heart of the Church of England, I formally declared myself to be a Buddhist.

Alan Watts regarded Christianity as “militant”. I have to agree.

> [@I My Own Way - Alan Watts](#):
>
> Stand up, stand up for Jesus,  
> Ye soldiers of the cross;  
> Lift high his royal banner,  
> It must not suffer loss:  
> From vict’ry unto vict’ry  
> His army shall he lead  
> Till ev’ry foe is vanquished  
> And Christ is Lord indeed.

> [@Alan Watts](#):
>
> You have to relax, and the attitude of faith is the very opposite of clinging, and holding on. In other words, a person who is fanatic in matters of religion, and clings to certain ideas about the nature of God and the universe becomes a person who has no faith at all.

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 7:04am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/305 "2023-09-20T07:04:11Z")

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> [@Quid](#):
>
> There is only the gentle and continuous intention to allow the dropping away of all of those things that keep the awareness from beholding the presence of the one infinite Creator.

I see it a little like peeling an onion, layer after layer after layer…and eventually when all the layers are peeled…the “nothing” or “no-thing” which contains the “everything”.

> [@Ra](#):
>
> There are many things which fall away in the many, many steps of adepthood. We, of Ra, still walk these steps and praise the One Infinite Creator at each transformation.

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**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\
**Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:52am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/306 "2023-09-20T08:52:30Z")

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> [@Passer-by](#):
>
> I see it a little like peeling an onion, layer after layer after layer…and eventually when all the layers are peeled…the “nothing” or “no-thing” which contains the “everything”.

Yes as the only way for finite to be infinite is to remove the border.  
Or the other way around; the only way for infinite to be finite is to introduce a border, thus every ‘thing’ contained by the border then become finite. Thus ‘me’ and ‘not me’ exist, ‘inside’ and ‘outside’ exist.  
This ‘border’ is also referred as ‘veil’ in llresearch material.  
By becoming ‘finite’ you ‘forget’ / ‘do not see’ that you’re actually ‘infinite’.

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 10:58am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/307 "2023-09-20T10:58:36Z")

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In talking about these things, I’m a little hesitant to use the word “ego”, because like the word “faith”, it has become a cliché of sorts.

I prefer the word “mind-made self” instead of ego.

I just think after 2000 years of Christianity, the last thing people need is to once again be told there’s something wrong with them…

Think of how we use the word “ego” in everyday conversation…it’s always something closely resembling an insult.

And this I think is the most difficult area for the teachers of our time, like Eckhart Tolle, pointing to the “mind-made self” and the “illusion” that it is.

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:41am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/308 "2023-09-20T11:41:08Z")

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> [@Alan Watts](#):
>
> The biggest ego trip is getting rid of your ego, and of course the joke of it all is that your ego does not exist.

…

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:53am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/309 "2023-09-20T11:53:13Z")

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[![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/a/a8eb166053cf0a5db1e5abffa4ca8edcd6a38dd0.jpeg "The Biggest Joke of All - Alan Watts on The Ego") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QumMSGHITo0)

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 12:00pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/310 "2023-09-20T12:00:58Z")

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Or…put in another way:

> [@The Impersonal Life - Joseph Benner](#):
>
> You may, with your personality, try a thousand times, a thousand times, to burst through the shell of your human consciousness.
> 
> It will result only, if at all, in a breaking down of the doors I have provided between the world of tangible forms and the realm of intangible dreams; and the door being open, you then no longer can keep out intruders from your private domain, without much trouble and suffering.
> 
> But even through such suffering you may gain the strength you lack and the wisdom needed to know that, not until you yield up all desire for knowledge, for goodness, yes, for union with Me, to benefit self, can you unfold your petals showing forth the perfect Beauty of My Divine Nature, and throw off the shell of your human personality and step forth into the glorious Light of My Heavenly Kingdom.

 ![CCbMz_OXIAAn8mI](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/5/528413958d85cc05864eeb32bb9d73d0f9118cab.jpeg)

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**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\
**Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 1:03pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/311 "2023-09-20T13:03:40Z")

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July 23, 2023

> For in this heavily veiled dance in which you find yourselves, it can be difficult to recognize that the body is ultimately not truly who you are. The body is but a costume, and you will have many costume changes in this play, my friends.

September 9, 1990

> You are not your bodies. You are not your intellect. You working to open your heart. We do not suggest that you embrace servanthood to the point of your own self-destruction unless you feel that it is your path to do so. What you wish to do, in truth, is to recognize what is your situation, and to keep recognizing that situation as it changes, accepting that the goal of this incarnation is neither happiness nor contentment, but service to others, and the learning, for yourself, of how to love without condition.

I likened this with “VR or RPG games” metaphor, wherein one need to assume an ‘avatar’ / ‘character’ in order to have interaction / experience with elements inside the VR realm.

On this physical world we ‘attach’ something to our ‘body’ as our assumed avatar in the physical world, and labelled it with prefix “My”. My religion, My race, My name, My nationality, My parent, My planet, My money, My wealth, My house, My car etc… etc… etc…

Or even “My Club”, a photo taken from White Hart Lane stadium, London, the home ground of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.  
 ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/1/12b49f4324f75d44264eabe2cd976176044cf6cb.jpeg)  
Why they add “My one and only club” in addition of “This is my club”?  
Because they (the football club management) is trying to induce loyalty / fanaticism/ strong identification from the audience to Tottenham Hotspur FC. Which shall resulted in more attendance-\>more sponsorship-\>more money. Totally understandable.

> [@Alan Watts](#):
>
> The biggest ego trip is getting rid of your ego, and of course the joke of it all is that your ego does not exist

The ‘ego’ (physical body as an anchor of identity) doesn’t need any getting rid off, because by nature it has it’s own internal mechanism that it will decay, get rid by itself, in due time.  
And so does any other concept that one attached to the ego, Religion, Nationality, Race, Football Club, Planet, Star… all of it will be “rid off” in due time. Everything that has a beginning will definitely have an end.

Thus the term “attachment”, and the opposite; “letting go”.  
This is the game… attaching and letting go… separating and unifying… finite-ing and returning to infinite.

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 1:04pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/312 "2023-09-20T13:04:05Z")

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Joel Goldsmith puts it this way:

> [@The Art of Meditation](#):
>
> As students of spiritual wisdom, the important question is: What is the best way, if there is a best way, of achieving this realization of our true Selfhood? Is there a short cut? Is there a path that leads to God-realization, a path that can be trod here on earth? Can it be achieved here on earth?
> 
> And the answer is yes. Not only is there a way of accomplishing this objective, but there is a short cut. That short cut, so simple and yet so very difficult, is to perform a bit of mental surgery on ourselves and cut away all our desires. Let us take a good sharp scalpel and cut out of ourselves all desire for person, place, thing, circumstance, or condition. Every desire must be cut away in order that only one remains: to know Thee, whom to know aright is life eternal.

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/313 "2023-09-20T13:11:42Z")

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> [@Quid](#):
>
> that it will decay

Exactly!

> [@Alan Watfs](#):
>
> The meaning of the fact that everything is dissolving constantly, that we’re all falling apart, we’re all in the process of constant death………all falling apart, everything is…you see that’s of great assistance to you.
> 
> The fact - that everything is in constant decay is your helper.
> 
> That is allowing you…to not have to let go, because there’s nothing to hold onto.
> 
> It’s achieved for you, in other words, by the process of nature.
> 
> Suddenly you find you have the power.
> 
> This enormous access of energy.
> 
> But it’s not power that came to you because you grabbed it.
> 
> It came in entirely the opposite way.”

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/314 "2023-09-20T13:32:42Z")

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Alan Watts kept a file which he labeled SATORI, in which he kept letters from people telling him about their mystical experiences.

Here’s such a letter:

> [@In My Own Way - Alan Watts](#):
>
> And Jacqueline would do trick-dancing for us, or go limp and challenge the strongest man in the room to pick her up, which was impossible. This lithe, blond, elfin girl with a soft squeaky voice and pointed ears on her astral body had unsuspected depths.
> 
> I keep a file, labeled SATORI, of letters from people who have written to me about their mystical experiences, and this, from Jacquie, goes back to September 1950 when she had been giving a sympathetic ear to a friend who had lost her husband:
> 
> •••
> 
> "The oddest thing has happened: in my feeble attempts to help her, so many things have fallen into place for me. Oh, I do wish you were here to talk to; these things look so pretentious on paper. But, hang it, I have never felt so excited, and yet so calm, in my life. I have the same problems I’ve always had, and yet I can accept them. All of a sudden, I expect nothing. I have everything, and even if I lose all I have I still have everything! Do I sound positively crazy? …
> 
> I’m at a loss to explain to her or even to you what I feel: that there is no God outside her letting things happen, but she herself who is making the trouble, and that God isn’t any thing—he just is. I am verbally out of my element…
> 
> What do you SAY to a person when you want to convey so much more than, “This is the way things are; in everything you see a beauty of a sort; that God is,” and not in any soupy sort of way that sounds sentimental and soothing, because it isn’t that way, and she wouldn’t accept it that way, and neither would I.
> 
> It has something to do with every minute being something of its own - enough in itself - although it might even be a very unhappy minute.
> 
> Well you probably think I’m loony? And I probably am. But, damn it all, it’s the best looniness I’ve ever known!"
> 
> •••

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 5:08am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/315 "2023-09-21T05:08:17Z")

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> [@The Wisdom of Insecurity - Alan Watts](#):
>
> These words are more than ever applicable to Christians, and speak exactly to the whole condition of our times. For we have never actually understood the revolutionary sense beneath them - the incredible truth that what religion calls the vision of God is found in giving up any belief in the idea of God.
> 
> By the same law of reversed effort, we discover the “infinite” and the “absolute,” not by straining to escape from the finite and relative world, but by the most complete acceptance of its limitations.
> 
> Paradox as it may seem, we likewise find life meaningful only when we have seen that it is without purpose, and know the “mystery of the universe” only when we are convinced that we know nothing about it at all.
> 
> The ordinary agnostic, relativist, or materialist fails to reach this point because he does not follow his line of thought consistently to its end - an end which would be the surprise of his life.
> 
> All too soon he abandons faith, openness to reality, and lets his mind harden into doctrine. The discovery of the mystery, the wonder beyond all wonders, needs no belief, for we can only believe in what we have already known, preconceived, and imagined. But this is beyond any imagination. We have but to open the eyes of the mind wide enough, and “the truth will out.”

…

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**Author:** ![soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@soup](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/soup)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 6:24am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/316 "2023-09-21T06:24:44Z")

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> [@The Wisdom of Insecurity - Alan Watts](#):
>
> the incredible truth that what religion calls the vision of God is found in giving up any belief in the idea of God

This reminds me of the idea of humans as tool makers who like to use part numbers which I’ll try to loop back onto.

So articulating beliefs might depend upon language, and language can only take you so far in cases where language  
with it’s finite nature may not well express the infinite.

For example, the light is on or the light is off compared  
to the idea the light glows with a color temperature of  
a thousand Kelvin and my marshmallow’s now flaming  
black.

So I’m proposing a conjecture, that 1d things don’t  
mind being referred to as distinct part numbers, that  
lab rats undergoing clinical tests might also be okay  
as numbered, but most people don’t like being called  
a number. Pets on the other hand can have short  
cute pet names, and also lovers - but it’s not very  
professional to call your hot boss babe. First and  
last names make better sense in an org chart.

However, when your pup barks your attention,  
there may be some attempt there to vocalize  
your name just as you like it but, it doesn’t  
sound great because pups don’t articulate  
language well, including names - even though  
pups can understand you when you call them.

And so the conjecture stemming from all this  
is that humans cannot articulate well higher  
vibrational language. In fact when we use  
conventional language to convey names and  
ideas, we may be falling way short on doing  
a very good job.

Vibrationally, as we mimic sounds, at some  
point then we mimic vibrations, we sense vibration,  
then we echo it. In this way, vibrational  
language to convey things like  
“the vision of God” may be less of a total  
desecration to that aim.

By giving up language  
of words, we may better learn a shared  
language of vibration, and such language  
may offer us some spiritual advantages.

In this way, a closer approach to expressing  
some belief of infinite creation might be realized.

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 10:00am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/317 "2023-09-21T10:00:36Z")

</div>

> [@soup](#):
>
> And so the conjecture stemming from all this  
> is that humans cannot articulate well higher  
> vibrational language.

I like the way Carl Sagan explained this difficulty.

[![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/b/ba1885eeb252a6441e88f8e2f0431a1188bcd569.jpeg "Cosmos - Carl Sagan - 4th Dimension") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnURElCzGc0)

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 10:34am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/318 "2023-09-21T10:34:10Z")

</div>

> [@Upanishads](#):
>
> To whomsoever it is unknown, to him it is known. To whomsoever it is known, he does not know. It is unknown to those who know it and known to those who do not know.

> [@Ra](#):
>
> It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

I personally find it quite a relief that I’m not expected to understand…

> [@Ra](#):
>
> As you understand, if we may use this misnomer,

Ha! 😝

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 10:43am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/319 "2023-09-21T10:43:09Z")

</div>

> [@Dōgen Zenji](#):
>
> Before one studies Zen, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters.

…

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 11:48am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/320 "2023-09-21T11:48:57Z")

</div>

[![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/5/515d6a340c7c92ae19e894928b71fa2a32539d63.jpeg "We're Already Playing But People Don't See It - Alan Watts Explains The Game") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4xa-MA2szg)

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**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\
**Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 8:03am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/321 "2023-09-23T08:03:27Z")

</div>

This morning I was wondering where the “trinitarian doctrine” in Christianity originated from, given that there’s no mention of it in the gospels…

It was yet another Nicaean Council invention.

> **[Council of Nicaea concludes](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/council-of-nicaea-concludes)**
>
> The Council of Nicaea, the first ecumenical debate held by the early Christian church, concludes with the establishment of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Convened by Roman Emperor Constantine I in May, the council also deemed the Arian belief of...

Why is it relevant? Because it lies at the heart of the problem in Christianity, making Jesus “other than our other selves”…

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**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\
**Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 8:14am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/322 "2023-09-23T08:14:38Z")

</div>

> [@Passer-by](#):
>
> Why is it relevant? Because it lies at the heart of the problem in Christianity, making Jesus “other than our other selves”…

The aftermath of Council Of Nicea should be labeled as the “1st Inquisition” or “1st Crusade” as those who disagree with the result are labeled as heresy and punished by either banishment, torture or death.  
As mentioned by Mr Watts above, the crux of the problem is in “Fanaticism”.

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