# Message From Jesus **URL:** \ **Category:** Spiritual & Metaphysical Matters\ **Created:** [July 26, 2023, 9:29am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370 "2023-07-26T09:29:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 6:59am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/283 "2023-09-17T06:59:05Z")

Hey Quid, so you know the book I mentioned a little earlier in this conversation - Life in the World Unseen by Anthony Borgia. I’m reading it again now, because it was so amazing! So I think you said you were raised Catholic… Now this book is a channeled book, the channel is Anthony Borgia, and the entity he channeled was [Robert Hugh Benson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hugh_Benson) when he was still on earth, a prominent Catholic priest and prolific writer of Catholic doctrine. His works are still highly regarded by the Catholic church, to this day. So when Benson died and arrived on “the other side”, he was just filled with remorse over what he had written while still on earth, and all the Catholic lies he perpetuated. So he asked them if there is anything he can do to correct these mistakes, and communicate to Earth people somehow, so they allowed him to come through as a channel. The result is this book, and its a magical read! Jam-packed with spiritual insights and delights. Read it, you won’t regret it! > **[Life in the World Unseen: Anthony Borgia, Zinc Read: 9788119207527: Amazon.com:...](https://www.amazon.com/Life-World-Unseen-Anthony-Borgia/dp/8119207521)** > > Life in the World Unseen \[Anthony Borgia, Zinc Read\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Life in the World Unseen ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 10:52am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/284 "2023-09-17T10:52:33Z")

So why did the zen masters give their students such impossible tasks? “To hear the sound of one hand clapping” …“without moving, stop a ship sailing out on the water”…“stop the sound of a train whistle in the distance”…“touch the ceiling without getting up from one’s chair”… ??? > **[The World as Just So (Part 2)](https://www.organism.earth/library/document/out-of-your-mind-8)** > > This lecture on Zen Buddhism describes the Japanese Zen monastery, meditation practices, kōans used by masters to guide students, and the enlightenment experience. Watts explains how masters help students break attachment to ego through impossible... ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 7:47am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/285 "2023-09-18T07:47:03Z")

> [@Quid](#): > > The intellect helps to dissect between the Is and the Is Not. > Yet Is and Is not complement each others. > Beyond disparity, one will see unity. > [@Alan Watts](#): > > A holy person is one who is whole; who has, as it were, reconciled his opposites. And so there’s always something slightly scary about holy people. And other people react to them in very strange ways; they can’t make up their minds whether they’re saints or devils. > [@Ra](#): > > Therefore, the melody, shall we say, of this Matrix often seems to be of a negative and evil as you would call it, nature. > > It is also to be noted that an adept is one which has freed itself more and more from the constraints of the thoughts, opinions, and bonds of other-selves. Whether this is done for service to others or service to self, it is a necessary part of the awakening of the adept. This freedom is seen by those not free as what you would call evil or black. The magic is recognized; the nature is often not. > [@Matthew 12:24-25](#): > > When the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man can force demons out of people only with the help of Beelzebul, the ruler of demons.” > > Since Yeshua knew what they were thinking, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is ruined. And every city or household divided against itself will not last." > [@8th Ox-herding picture](#): > > Whip, rope, person, and ox – all merge in No Thing. > This heaven is so vast, no message can stain it. > How may a snowflake exist in a raging fire. > Here are the footprints of the Ancestors. > I have abandoned the whip and ropes … ---

**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 8:59am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/286 "2023-09-18T08:59:07Z")

> [@Passer-by](#): > > So when Benson died and arrived on “the other side”, he was just filled with remorse over what he had written while still on earth, and all the Catholic lies he perpetuated. > > So he asked them if there is anything he can do to correct these mistakes, and communicate to Earth people somehow, so they allowed him to come through as a channel. Thanks and interesting… Anything in particular that “Benson” felt remorse over? Just like in any organization, Catholic church is not an exception, it always contain people with wide range of spectrum. I’m now try to cut through the label (catholic, anglican, moslem, buddhist etc…) and try to grasp the range of spectrum. Among the pattern that I find is “Fanaticism” (such as towards specific label) is strongly related to “Ego” and “Pride”, and it’s categorized within the “middle low range of frequency”. ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/uploads/bring4th/original/2X/6/63418893711c347c1fbc3d612e0ab54a9a271987.jpeg) ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 9:11am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/287 "2023-09-18T09:11:33Z")

> [@Quid](#): > > Anything in particular that “Benson” felt remorse over? I’m a little on the go at the moment, but I had a quick glance at some of his works on his wikipedia page, among other things, he was tasked with using Catholic dogma and doctrine to attack new and upcoming Christian denominations (who threatened the authority of the Catholic church). One of the groups he went after was the Christian Scientists. And then just perpetuating the usual Catholic nonsense; heaven / hell…eternal damnation…guilt…and so on - all the “fear” stuff… When I have a moment I’ll add some snippets from the book. ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 9:52am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/288 "2023-09-18T09:52:35Z")

His last book…sadly… > **[The Apocalypse of Robert Hugh Benson - Word on Fire](https://www.wordonfire.org/articles/barron/the-apocalypse-of-robert-hugh-benson/)** > > Another article from Fr. Barron and Word on Fire commenting on subjects from modern day culture. Imagine his surprise when he got to “the other side” … ---

**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 10:18am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/289 "2023-09-18T10:18:35Z")

> [@Passer-by](#): > > So why did the zen masters give their students such impossible tasks? > > “To hear the sound of one hand clapping” …“without moving, stop a ship sailing out on the water”…“stop the sound of a train whistle in the distance”…“touch the ceiling without getting up from one’s chair”… > > ??? I’ve encountered similar narration before, “Make the flower bloom in winter.” The answer is: you should not expect the flower to bloom during winter, just wait for spring time and the flower will bloom without any need for you to do anything. Is it similar? ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 10:25am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/290 "2023-09-18T10:25:56Z")

I believe they did it to frustrate the students to the point where they “gave up” and “let go”, realising that “they of themselves can do nothing”. Remember these “impossible tasks” were given to students to contemplate during zazen (meditation). ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 10:38am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/291 "2023-09-18T10:38:58Z")

I only understood these techniques used by zen masters when I read this book - a book that has nothing to do with zen…or maybe everything! > **[The Impersonal Life: Joseph Benner: 9780875163017: Amazon.com: Books](https://www.amazon.com/Impersonal-Life-Joseph-Benner/dp/0875163017)** > > The Impersonal Life \[Joseph Benner\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Impersonal Life These techniques may seem a little unorthodox (or extreme), but sometimes they got the job done. As Alan Watts would say “how are you going to lift yourself up by your own bootstraps?” or “the one who is doing the improving, is the one who needs to be improved”…dilemma… so now what? 🙂 Or as Eckhart Tolle realised the night of his awakening…in his frustration he screamed “I can’t live with myself any longer!”…hang on! …I?…myself?…how can there be two of me? The zen masters were waiting for this “break” to occur in a student. ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 11:15am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/292 "2023-09-18T11:15:30Z")

> [@Life in the World Unseen - Anthony Borgia](#): > > My Earth Life > > WHO I am really matters not. Who I was matters still less. We do not carry our earthly positions with us into the spirit world. My earthly importance I left behind me. My spiritual worth is what counts now, and that, my good friend, is far below what it should be and what it can be. Thus much as to who I am. As to who I was, I should like to give some details concerning my mental attitude prior to my passing here into the world of spirit. > > My earth life was not a hard one in the sense that I never underwent physical privations, but it was certainly a life of hard mental work. In my early years I was drawn towards the Church because the mysticism of the Church attracted my own mystical sense. The mysteries of religion, through their outward expression of lights and vestments and ceremonies, seemed to satisfy my spiritual appetite in a way that nothing else could. There was much, of course, that I did not understand, and since coming into spirit I have found that those things do not matter. > > They were religious problems raised by the minds of men, and they have no significance whatever in the great scheme of life. But at the time, like so many others, I believed in a wholesale fashion, without a glimmering of understanding, or very little. I taught and preached according to the orthodox text-books, and so I established a reputation for myself. When I contemplated a future state of existence I thought - and that vaguely - of what the Church had taught me on the subject, which was infinitesimally small and most incorrect. I did not realize the closeness of the two worlds - ours and yours - although I had ample demonstration of it. What occult experiences I had were brought about, so I thought, by some extension of natural laws, and they were rather to be considered as incidental than of regular occurrence, given to the few rather than to the many. > > The fact that I was a priest did not preclude me from visitations of what the Church preferred to look upon as devils, although I never once, I must confess, saw anything remotely resembling what I could consider as such. I did not grasp the fact that I was what is called, on the earth-plane, a sensitive, psychic - one gifted with the power of ‘seeing’, though in limited degree. > > This incursion of a psychic faculty into my priestly life found to be considerably disturbing since it conflicted with my: orthodoxy. I sought advice in the matter from my colleagues, but they knew less than I knew, and they could only think of praying for me that these devils might be removed from me. Their prayers availed me nothing - that was to be expected as I now see. Had my experiences been upon a high spiritual plane then is the chance that I should have been regarded in the light of a very holy man. > > But they were not so; they were just such experiences as occur to the ordinary earthly sensitive. As happening to a priest of the Holy Church they were looked upon as temptations of ‘the devil’. As happenings to one of the laity they would have been regarded as dealings with ‘the devil’, or as some form of mental aberration. What my colleagues did not understand was that this power was a gift - a precious gift, is I understand now - and that it was personal to myself, as it is to all those who possess it, and to pray to have it removed is as senseless as to pray that one’s ability to play the piano or paint a picture might be removed. It was not only senseless, it was unquestionably wrong, since such a gift of being able to see beyond the veil was given to be exercised for the good of mankind. I can at least rejoice that I never prayed for release from these powers. Pray I did, but for more light on the matter. > > The great barrier to any further investigation of these faculties was the Church’s attitude towards them, which was - and is - unrelenting, unequivocal, narrow, and ignorant. However long were any investigations or in whatever direction, the Church’s final judgment was always the same, and its pronouncements unvarying -‘ such things have their origin in the devil’. And I was bound by the laws of that Church, administering its sacraments and delivering its teachings, while the spirit world was knocking upon the door of my very existence, and trying to show me, for myself to see, what I had so often contemplated our future life. > > Many of my experiences of psychic happenings I incorporated into my books, giving the narratives such a twist as would impart to them an orthodox religious flavour. The truth was there, but the meaning and purpose were distorted. In a larger work I felt that I had to uphold the Church against the assaults of those who believed in the spiritual survival of bodily death, and that it was possible for the spirit world to communicate with the earth world. And in that larger work I ascribed to ‘the devil’ - against my better judgment - what I really knew to be nothing other than the working of natural laws, beyond and entirely independent of any orthodox religion, and certainly of no evil origin. > > To have followed my own inclinations would have entailed a complete upheaval in my life, a renunciation of orthodoxy, and most probably a great material sacrifice, since I had established a second reputation as a writer. What I had already written would then have become worthless in the eyes of my readers, and I should have been regarded as a heretic or a madman. The greatest opportunity of my earthly life I thus let pass. How great was that opportunity, and how great were my loss and regret, I knew when I had passed into this world whose inhabitants I had already seen so many times and on so many different occasions. The truth was within my grasp, and I let it fall. I adhered to the Church. Its teachings had obtained too great a hold upon me. > > I saw thousands believing as I did, and I took courage from that, as I could not think that they could all be wrong. I tried to separate my religious life from my psychic experiences, and to treat them as having no connection with one another. It was difficult, but I managed to steer a course that gave me the least mental disturbance, and so I continued to the end, when at last I stood upon the threshold of that world of which I had already had a glimpse, Of what befell me when I ceased to be an inhabitant of the earth and passed into the great spirit world, I hope now to give you some details. … ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:05pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/293 "2023-09-18T12:05:01Z")

> [@Ra](#): > > Although there are no mistakes, there are surprises. … ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:41pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/294 "2023-09-18T12:41:17Z")

Not too long ago while I was rereading the Gospels, I started wondering about the word “sin”, and what its original meaning might have been, before it came to mean “wrongdoing”… The original meaning of the word was something akin to “estrangement” and “separation” - a condition of being cut off, exiled, away from home. ---

**Author:** ![K.K.33](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/k.k.33/32/1845_2.png) [@K.K.33](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/K.K.33)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/295 "2023-09-18T13:50:19Z")

I myself had various theories about this. Ultimately, I’m inclined to think that it’s simply disinformation designed to make people think that they are somehow scolded, unclean, evil. Which is an illusion. The truth is that everyone is perfect, in the sense of the fundamental vibration/energy that makes up their soul, and no original sin exists, has not existed and will not exist, and the only effect such thinking about sin or original sin has is to mentally disconnect from the community in oneness with all that exists - this is my opinion. I am now reading excerpts from a session with Q’uo: > There are two basic ways in which those of your culture choose to make the demarcation between the human and the divine. The first is that of the Christian, the Jewish and the Islamic religions or philosophical systems, if you will, in which there is required of the **sinner** a repentance and a surrender of the human self in order to worship, adore and be redeemed by the Creatorship of the Messiah or the God named Allah whose prophet is Mohammed. This system of demarcation of human and divine takes its flavor from the male energy of the God-name involved in all three religious systems. > In the New Testament, the son is not so lucky. There is no ram in Jerusalem and Jesus the Christ is crucified upon Golgotha. In both Testaments the figure is the same—one innocent to die in order to redeem all of **sinful** humanity. > (…) split betwixt humanity and divinity or the profane and the sacred. Within the Law of One, no such demarcation exists. Rather, it is posited that each entity within third density has the one infinite Creator at the heart of every fiber of its being. And finally, more to the point: > **(…)as the Law of One or the Confederation Philosophy posits a singular, unitary consciousness in which all parts are interactive and all things are one. If all things are one, to what shall any soul surrender? This is why there is no mention of such a surrender within our thoughts which we share with you.** The above excerpts are from: [November 10, 2007 - Saturday meditation - L/L Research](https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/2007/1110) “Surrender” to a higher divine power can be just interpreted as an escape from sin in favor of devotion to a higher power. But, precisely, to whom is this surrender as all is one? One can at most “surrender” oneself to oneself. There is no division. And sin then can only be an “agent” for promoting the idea of separation and this division between the “sacred and profane”, when there is nothing of the sort, objectively. My understanding is that humanity has never been seperated (for example, by sin) and never will be. All there is is living behind a veil through which some recognize that they are separated, by virtue of a conclusion based on “imbalance”/illusion. ---

**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/296 "2023-09-18T16:01:33Z")

> [@K.K.33](#): > > The truth is that everyone is perfect, in the sense of the fundamental vibration/energy that makes up their soul, and no original sin exists, has not existed and will not exist, and the only effect such thinking about sin or original sin has is to mentally disconnect from the community in oneness with all that exists - this is my opinion. The conception of “Original Sin” is quite absurd, at least in how “Common Christians” see it. God punished human because their great grandpa ate an apple, and to forgive such sin somebody need to die on a cross as a ‘black sheep’ / ‘offering’. This is how the teacher ‘introduced’ me to Jesus in catholic school, so I was running scared upon seeing a gigantic statue of a man nailed upon a cross, in her effort to comfort me she said “Don’t be afraid, it’s a statue of Jesus dear… he died for our sin.” And I’m thinking to myself: “Sin? What did I do? I didn’t do my homework and somebody need to die for it?” About sin, Quo has an interesting narration about Jesus and (his) sin.. # January 21, 2007 > The one known as Jesus the Christ was in karmic debt from the point in his boyhood where he had done violence to another human being, however unintentionally. Because he had not forgiven himself for that action, he was karmically tied to that action and that entity because of his unwillingness to release himself from the burden of guilt. He was unwilling to forgive himself of his sin. And we use that word “sin” advisedly. That would be a topic upon which we could speak in and of itself! Perhaps you could substitute the word “error” in order to create a more neutrally emotional word for a lapse in judgment that results in unfortunate consequences. > > When the one known as Jesus was faced with this self-confessed thief and murderer who asked him for forgiveness, Jesus the Christ not only forgave him but he realized with a flash of insight that pierced his very heart that he had the ability to forgive all others in the world but he was holding himself away from the redemptive power of the forgiveness that he himself came, in his own intention, to offer to the world. And so, finally, joyfully, thankfully, he released himself from his mistake. He forgave himself and he was free. As for surrender, this is the conception according to Quo. > If the seeker is aware that he is seeking his deepest self, then there is no other, there is only a growing desire to lay aside each mask, each husk, and each trait of personality that veils from him the deepest truth of his nature. Yet this is not a mechanical process. There is no “stairway to heaven” as the song phrases it. There is only the gentle and continuous intention to allow the dropping away of all of those things that keep the awareness from beholding the presence of the one infinite Creator. > > And this is where surrender and grace reenter this Law of One. For the surrender is to the deeper self. And in surrendering to the deeper truth of the self, the shallower identifications of self with personality traits, accidents of birth, race, religion, and so forth, melt away. All distinctions blur beside the presence of the Creator within. Melt away the shallow self identification towards traits, birth, race, religion and so on.. Melt away the ego. Furthermore from Quo.. December 6, 2003 > Rather, he was one whose hunger for purity was such that he very much wanted and leapt towards the ability to lose himself, lose that ego structure which would have its desires and wants apart from the will of the Father. To the one known as Jesus all else was as nothing and simply was allowed to fall away. As he said; Let your will be done, on earth as it’s in heaven.. By the way, the word ‘Prophet’ is from Hebrew “Nevi” which literally means “Hollow”. ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/297 "2023-09-18T17:22:21Z")

I really have to get into these Quo / Hatonn / etc. sessions, there’s some real gems in there! I’m still percolating Jesus in Kashmir! I’m going to have to read these sessions you guys shared in full, as it pertains to “surrender”. ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/298 "2023-09-18T18:07:30Z")

I have some ideas about the word “sin” and its original meaning I shared above. If it meant something along the lines of “estrangement” or “separation”, is it possible that it pointed to some deeper truth before it got distorted and came to mean “wrongdoing”? > [@](#): > > Questioner: > > Is the higher self of every entity of a sixth-density nature? > > Ra: > > I am Ra. This is correct. This is an honor/duty of self to self as one approaches seventh density. > [@](#): > > Questioner: > > Then using Himmler as an example, was his higher self at the time he was incarnate in the 1940s a sixth-density positively oriented higher self? > > Ra: > > I am Ra. This is correct. > > Questioner: > > Was Himmler in any way in contact with his higher self at that time while he was incarnate in the 1940s? > > Ra: > > I am Ra. We remind you that the negative path is one of separation. What is the first separation? The self from the self. > > The one known as Himmler did not choose to use its abilities of will and polarization to seek guidance from any source but its conscious drives, self-chosen in the life experience and nourished by previous biases created in other life experiences. So what I’m getting at, is that “sin” originally may have pointed to the “estrangement” or “separation” of a third density entity from its higher self in sixth density, or “self from self”. ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/299 "2023-09-18T18:27:24Z")

Apparently the word “sin” has been removed from the dictionary, because it has fallen into disuse. 🫢 ---

**Author:** ![Quid](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/quid/32/109_2.png) [@Quid](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Quid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/300 "2023-09-19T03:35:34Z")

Within the Lord’s prayer, originally the word “sin” was translated as “debt”. It chimes well with the conception of “Karmic Debt” or “Karmic Bond”. > Forgive us our debts. > As we’ve forgiven our debtors. I tried to trace to the Aramaic word and found the word “bayn” / “hawbayn” which translated to english as “debt”. But since not many people understood ancient Aramaic nowadays, and the closest surviving language is “Arabic”, somebody did analysis of word to word translation of “Lord’s Prayer” using his knowledge of Arabic. > **[The Christian Lord’s Prayer as the Introduction to the Qur’an](https://iqlid.wordpress.com/2016/12/23/lpiq/)** > > Christmas 2016 for the western churches is upon us. Nobody will dispute that 2016 was itself a trying year. A host of global problems have polarized human beings based on race, religion, ethnicity … ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 5:23am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/301 "2023-09-19T05:23:09Z")

> [@Quid](#): > > It chimes well with the conception of “Karmic Debt” or “Karmic Bond”. And yet if you throw away “reincarnation” as Christianity has done, then “karmic debt” or “being born in sin” loses its meaning, and simply becomes “you are bad”. ---

**Author:** ![Passer-by](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex029/user_avatar/discourse.bring4th.org/passer-by/32/2283_2.png) [@Passer-by](https://discourse.bring4th.org/u/Passer-by)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 5:35am UTC](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370/302 "2023-09-19T05:35:48Z")

I don’t think people nowadays quite realise the complete control that the Catholic church exercised over the European population during the Middle Ages. The separation of church and state was a direct consequence of that. Even scientists and astronomers got in big trouble with the Catholic church if their “cosmology” and “theories” went against the religious dogma of the Catholic church. The Alchemists had to operate in complete secrecy. They were deeply into Hermeticism. If we were living in Europe during the Middle Ages and we were studying the Ra material, we’d have to do the same as the Alchemists did. [Previous page](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370.md?page=14) [Next page](https://discourse.bring4th.org/t/message-from-jesus/1370.md?page=16)